bluemonday Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 The island has attracted many new residents over the past twenty years and with it a change in the standards of life on the island, OK you could say its also benefited the island. At one time we used to be proud of the slow pace of life on the island and the safety of our children and property, do we have that luxury now. Have our attitudes changed as to the way we live on the island now. And lets face it the very same people that moved to the island could just as well vacate the island and leave us with nothing. What this we? I'm ashamed to be Manx and be associated with xenophobic comments like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccm Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 You would think ..... .....that if the Manx Grand Prix....can't get enough people to marshal this evening ....then it's definitely a case of the minority holding the majority to ransom. If people in the Isle of Man WANT the Manx Grand Prix to go ahead then they would be out supporting it in the best way that they can and that's by sticking an orange jacket on. The very fact that appeals such as the one being made by officials is LOOKING for help well .....to me that speaks volumes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 You would think ..... .....that if the Manx Grand Prix....can't get enough people to marshal this evening ....then it's definitely a case of the minority holding the majority to ransom. If people in the Isle of Man WANT the Manx Grand Prix to go ahead then they would be out supporting it in the best way that they can and that's by sticking an orange jacket on. The very fact that appeals such as the one being made by officials is LOOKING for help well .....to me that speaks volumes I think the numbers marshalling has been a proplem for many years now and I can not see it improving. It is only by visitors who come to watch the racing marshalling that the the required numbers are available. I would be interested in the breakdown of numbers between IoM residents and non residents marshalling. I think we also got away with it for years as especially in the morning I think they were fairly lax with regard to actual numbers being out. This has been tightened up on but if there had been no problem with regards to numbers I am sure that morning practices would not have cancelled. It is hard to blame local residents as presumably for past generations you holidayed on the IoM and the TT period was your holiday and many marshalled. Now with transport being so easily available, relatively cheap and our attitude changing with regards what we want to do and where we want to go on holiday it is hardly surprising that many want to use up several days of their yearly holiday entitlement marshalling. On the flip side though you do meet people who moved to the IoM because they came for the TT and liked the IoM. Presumably these sorts of people who like the TT and bikes help make up the numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 The problem is that the number of marshalls required to run the event has increased dramatically over recent years. While there have always been the stalworts, this now requires an even greater drive to recruit from the masses. Don't forget, hundreds that normally would marshal are tied up in racing, being mechanics and other things in the event too. Not everyone wants to be a marshal though for a great many reasons - and not every marshal can attend every practice or race, so the 500+ required soon turns into 1000 required to cover all and 5000+ on the books. The fact is, fewer people these days volunteer for anything. For example a once thriving St John Ambulance, now only has about 30 members. You can marshal from age 16, but I have seen few teenagers marshalling - or volunteering for many things over the past 20+ years, so there is also a societal impact to consider here too. People are, in general terms, far more selfish, lazy, apathetic, and tend to give little to their community these days. Therein lies the real truth IMO. Many people see that the island was very different in that respect years ago, as was the UK 40 years ago. The difference with the island and the UK though was that it took an additional 20 years to happen here - that 20 years difference being why many from the UK wanted to settle here, and still do (wrt UK). You can't have your cake and eat it - and more people need to realise this IMO and put something into keeping those aspects of the island as they were. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 The problem is that the number of marshalls required to run the event has increased dramatically over recent years. While there have always been the stalworts, this now requires an even greater drive to recruit from the masses. Don't forget, hundreds that normally would marshal are tied up in racing, being mechanics and other things in the event too. Not everyone wants to be a marshal though for a great many reasons - and not every marshal can attend every practice or race, so the 500+ required soon turns into 1000 required to cover all and 5000+ on the books. The fact is, fewer people these days volunteer for anything. For example a once thriving St John Ambulance, now only has about 30 members. You can marshal from age 16, but I have seen few teenagers marshalling - or volunteering for many things over the past 20+ years, so there is also a societal impact to consider here too. People are, in general terms, far more selfish, lazy, apathetic, and tend to give little to their community these days. Therein lies the real truth IMO. Many people see that the island was very different in that respect years ago, as was the UK 40 years ago. The difference with the island and the UK though was that it took an additional 20 years to happen here - that 20 years difference being why many from the UK wanted to settle here, and still do (wrt UK). You can't have your cake and eat it - and more people need to realise this IMO and put something into keeping those aspects of the island as they were. . Well put Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 People are, in general terms, far more selfish, lazy, apathetic, and tend to give little to their community these days. Therein lies the real truth IMO. Many people see that the island was very different in that respect years ago, as was the UK 40 years ago. The difference with the island and the UK though was that it took an additional 20 years to happen here - that 20 years difference being why many from the UK wanted to settle here, and still do (wrt UK). Paradoxically that's also what has caused the deterioration in the values that led people from the UK to move here in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 The fact is, fewer people these days volunteer for anything. For example a once thriving St John Ambulance, now only has about 30 members. You can marshal from age 16, but I have seen few teenagers marshalling - or volunteering for many things over the past 20+ years, so there is also a societal impact to consider here too. We have become a more selfish society, but is that because people are intrinsically more selfish or for numerous other reasons. Some good some bad. 40 years males especially may have considerably more time to Marshall, wives did not generally go out to work there job was looking the home and kids. Now a much greater % work. Consequently expectations change and where as previously as long as the man put the money on the table he was much more "free" to do with his time as he pleased including marshalling. Now there are greater expectations that they will spend that free time with the family etc. One of the big changes is also as a result of the number of kids going to university and that they now have to pay tuition fees etc. I was one of a smaller percentgae that went to university but we got a grant which was sufficient to live on we could also sign on over the summer, get housing benefit. As a result plenty of my friends had volunteer jobs, although we did not see them as such as we were allowed to do something we enjoyed. Now I see the same organisations struggling with numbers not because individuals do not want to assist but as Students they have to work during the holidays, at weekends to keep the debts at a reasonable level. The amount of work kids have to do at school and university has also increased, it is all course work and continous assessment where as for my generation a bit of cramming nearer the exam was all the work really required to get us through. If youngsters can volunteer would you volunteer to Marshal or save or earn a bit of money and do VOSE, conservation work overseas. The choice has expanded so much. So yes I accept that many are lazy and selfish but many things have changed to either discourage youngsters or provide them with more attractive alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I suspect what you are seeing is the impact of greater affluence - there are now many more things to do than were generally affordable 40 years ago (eg European holidays) as well as a change in interests, the number of tourists has greatly declined and with that both the associated jobs and the attitude of many employers that supporting tourism events was a 'good' thing for the Island as a whole. I also suspect that in earlier years many practices ran well below today's necessary numbers driven by increased H&S considerations. 40 years ago few friends had their own transport whilst in their teens except possibly for a motorbike/scooter - these days all my nephews etc have had their own car from late teens and I suspect interest in bikes has significantly declined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 What if they were paid? Would you get more people then? Could you have an agency of marshals that travelled the British Isles marshalling various events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 What if they were paid? Would you get more people then? Could you have an agency of marshals that travelled the British Isles marshalling various events? Paid? - surely they'd be Bounty Hunters then, not Marshals. There are already, albeit not very well publicised payments, such as discount off the Steam Racket for those signing up. Maybe they could offer the same discount on an away trip for local marshals. The SR have a lot to lose if events like this fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 What if they were paid? Would you get more people then? Could you have an agency of marshals that travelled the British Isles marshalling various events? Paid? - surely they'd be Bounty Hunters then, not Marshals. There are already, albeit not very well publicised payments, such as discount off the Steam Racket for those signing up. Maybe they could offer the same discount on an away trip for local marshals. The SR have a lot to lose if events like this fail. Not paying them doesn't seem to be working very well though, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 What if they were paid? Would you get more people then? Could you have an agency of marshals that travelled the British Isles marshalling various events? Paid? - surely they'd be Bounty Hunters then, not Marshals. There are already, albeit not very well publicised payments, such as discount off the Steam Racket for those signing up. Maybe they could offer the same discount on an away trip for local marshals. The SR have a lot to lose if events like this fail. Not paying them doesn't seem to be working very well though, does it? I suppose. Paying minimum wage would total around £60K for the fortnight I guesstimate, which I suppose isn't a lot of money in the big scheme of things - about 1 burger vans' profits I think if a lot more companies that leech benefit from the events dug deeper to provide some more incentives for marshals things might improve more. Bushy's for example offer a couple of free Beer tokens. There are over 900 people on the dole, maybe it could be offered as a job option for them as an experiment next year - though not a forced one of course, that wouldn't be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccm Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 People are, in general terms, far more selfish, lazy, apathetic, and tend to give little to their community these days. Therein lies the real truth IMO. Many people see that the island was very different in that respect years ago, as was the UK 40 years ago. The difference with the island and the UK though was that it took an additional 20 years to happen here - that 20 years difference being why many from the UK wanted to settle here, and still do (wrt UK). You can't have your cake and eat it - and more people need to realise this IMO and put something into keeping those aspects of the island as they were. . So what do you suggest, subscription? Just because people don't want to do something doesn't make them lazy. I understand the point that you're trying to make but you're wide of the mark. If people truly wanted the Manx Grand Prix then we wouldn't be having this debate. Why should people be held to ransom? Especially those unable to leave their homes while practicing/racing is on? The original purpose of the Manx Grand Prix was as an introduction to the TT. Now it's generally a Classic bike event ..... there is no requirement for anyone entering the TT to do the MGP first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Why should people be held to ransom? Especially those unable to leave their homes while practicing/racing is on? Ransom: To attempt to force (a person) to do something. Come on now, which came first, the TT/MGP or their house purchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevster Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 So what do you suggest, subscription? I think you mean 'conscription' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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