La_Dolce_Vita Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 There are lots of different anarchisms and I do not believe in any dogmatically. Are the majority of the population of the Isle of Man slaves to liberal dogma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Actually I don't believe in virtually anything. I may espouse certain causes but seldom to the point of fanaticism. Lifes rich university has yet to profoundly impress me. I'll probably have a theoretical final opinion about half a second before I have to start all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 IMO it is not appropriate. But then I do not live in a Muslim country and I am making my judgement based on my own value systems which are not the ones she was judged under. Yeah, you are making a judgement, absolutely. But without sounding rude, this is obvious. Are you trying to demonstrate a respect or limit to your ability to condemn it? I think it is very easy to make knee-jerk reactions about something like this based on our own value systems - I know I do it. But if you are thinking of visiting a country where the rules say you cannot drink alcohol, such as Saudi Arabia, then you have a choice. Either don't go there and have a whisky, or go there and drink mineral water. Apparently according to the article it is illegal for Muslims of any nationality to drink alcohol in Malaysia. Different countries have different laws. Rather like if someone smuggle drugs into Singapore irrespective of your nationality (or religion) they will hang you if caught. We can tut tut but that is THEIR law. From what I can gather it is not some sort of secret that is trotted out on unsuspecting tourists. You need to respect their laws or suffer the consequences. The IOM used to have similar cruel and unnatural punishment long after its use ceased elsewhere in the British Isles. Did our courts say 'you are a visitor so our punishments don't apply to you?' Maybe they did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 Actually I don't believe in virtually anything. I may espouse certain causes but seldom to the point of fanaticism. Maybe a bit fanatical and probably appear a crank to some pratts but not dogmatic at all. Manshimajin - Trying to understand if all you mean is simply that if you break a law in another country you can expect to be punished? Well...that's just obvious, isn't it? But the matter of placing judgment on their value systems and the laws they have is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I'd say the IOM is pretty conservative at the core. It likes to appear pragmatic but that's the public aspect. Prides itself on things like suffrage and voting age but is risk averse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 And the majority of people's views tend to fall within a narrow area of political thinking, a liberal one. Just as dogmatic as any other political belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 if thats the law in that place then thats the law, so no wasent unfair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Get caned get caned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lao Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 And the majority of people's views tend to fall within a narrow area of political thinking, a liberal one. Just as dogmatic as any other political belief. the above pigeon holing statement really brought the level of this debate down. if thats the law in that place then thats the law,so no wasent unfair unless the 'law' in that place is unfair. sharia rule should not be confused with law. which it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 sharia rule should not be confused with law. Sharia Law should though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lao Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Sharia Law should though. sharia law should be confused with....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 the above pigeon holing statement really brought the level of this debate down. Double standards! unless the 'law' in that place is unfair. sharia rule should not be confused with law. which it is. I don't agree with Gazza if he thinks that simply because another country has a different legal system/s then anything is ok because they can do whatever they want there. And I don't agree that the positive law in these countries or in this necessarily are the people's law, but let's not go into that for the sakes of not upsetting the norm. Is sharia law not the law then Lao? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lao Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Is sharia law not the law then Lao? i dont feel that we should treat theocratic rule as the peer of western jurisprudence. when the rules of your society are the inexorable word of a divine and holy power, any attempt to change them are an admittance that god was wrong. they are not equal, yet different theories for the rules that a society should live by. while both may be flawed, they are not on the same level and should not be treated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Who is to judge which legal code and punishment system is right and which is wrong? I do not like the idea of Sharia Law but aren't most religions intertwined with codes of behaviour? Was this lady ignorant of the law in Malaysia when she drank alcohol? Of course in British law ignorance of the law is not a defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Who is to judge which legal code and punishment system is right and which is wrong? 'Right' and 'wrong' are very much subjective standards, but we can judge a legal system by some very basic ideas of how people should be treated which i believe to be absolute. You might call them western liberal standards and say that they should not be enforced on cultures so drastically different from ours, but i think they are fundamental rights of people everywhere. The right to drink beer is one of them, and so is the right not to be whacked with a big stick. As i was saying before, the Sharia courts in Malaysia are not part of the state judiciary but only apply to muslims. You could consider then that they are an optional alternative which all muslims assent to but for that to be true the following conditions would have to be met: 1. That the Sharia laws accurately reflect widely held, established Islamic beliefs, which i'm not sure that they do, but we don't have an islamic scholar here to confirm it. 2. That people participate in Islam of their own volition, which is increasingly becoming obvious that they don't, so there goes my theory of muslims in these countries exercising their freedom of religion. So muslims in these countries do not necessarily assent to Sharia law removing their rights, making those courts little different to plain old secular barbaric justice systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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