Slim Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 what im saying is, If people are 100% honest with themselves, i mean 100%, then the whole "competitor death" arguement is merely a smokescreen for their own personal reasons for opposing the event- ie the inconveience, the congestion, the general dislike of bikes, government expenditure on an event that doesnt interest them, people having fun when they are at work etc. Not in my case. I walk or cycle everywhere, don't use a car much so the road closures and inconveniences don't really bother me at all. I don't like the elevated risk to me and mine when we do use the roads, not just for TT week but all year round. Living on a race course has it's consequences in my opinion. Like the bikes themselves, like the government expenditure on an annual 'few weeks of fun', go to see the bands, like walking about town, all that stuff. I simply don't think the safety record is acceptable. As I've said before, I don't want the TT stopped, I think it needs to adapt. It's going to be forced to before too long, which is why the TT fans are so reluctant to have any issue of safety discussed public. Raise a thread like this on the IOM TT forum and the first 20 posts will be shouting for it to be deleted. Perhaps this is may sound harsh but i fancy its the truth, a truth people are too scared to admit as they fear that their own "selfish reasons" do not carry enough weight to warrant the event to be stopped Given it's public money and a national reputation at stake, I think people are entitled to object for whatever reason they like. The death situation is a conveient arguement, as its a morally justifable cause that meets their own selfish(?) reasons for wanting the event to become extinct. That's ridiculous. We're talking about people dying here. With regard to ski-ing/mountainering/diving etc, well why isnt this a fair comparison? Alpine countries encourage people to travel to their country to ski just as the IOM encourages proven motorcycle racers to race on the IOM. The difference is, you must have fairly substantial experience and proven ability to compete on the IOM as a motorcycle racer, whereas ANYONE can go ski-ing, in many cases unrestricted and unsupervised. Because, as has been discussed here to death, the participant numbers vs fatalities is tiny. It's all about relative risk, and Skiing and the rest just doesn't even enter the same ballpark. Skiiers also don't drive through my car at 120mph while I'm driving on public roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 If your figures are correct 22.85% would need to find its way to government to break even. But £1000 per visitor? In what us little more than a long weekend? Camping. Also the steam packet or air fare will be a large part of that cost. Is their tax paid here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 So, in a nutshell, you are saying that so long as there are tourists and revenue streams, we should accept the deaths that arise as a result? Without compunction. Thats the thin end of a very large wedge.... what im saying is, If people are 100% honest with themselves, i mean 100%, then the whole "competitor death" arguement is merely a smokescreen for their own personal reasons for opposing the event- ie the inconveience, the congestion, the general dislike of bikes, government expenditure on an event that doesnt interest them, people having fun when they are at work etc. I could take or leave the TT/MGP to be honest....sure the road closures are a hassle but personally I like the increased number of people, accents and bikes around the place. What I object to is incesant fayboysism of the bikers who consider all reaonsable complaints about deaths on our roads to be some sort of xenophobic bleat. Look at it objectively....the rallying for example. Would it be realistic to say that during the International Rally (which gets a broad media coverage) it was expected that 1 or 2 of the competitors were to be killed. OK the sports have inherently different exposure to injury and death, but the fact that the deaths of the riders seems to be generally "accepted" by many I find somewhat distateful. This debate has entrenched opinions. This forum is hihgly unlikely to sway those firm pro or anti bridgade to the other side....however some of the fundamentalist stance taken by the pro brigade is likely to knock some those fence sitters (me included) in to the anti camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 35 - 8 = 27 don't upset lee's economy with something that obvious and who has a grand to spend once the steamracket have charged you the 'special' TT rates and the hotels have stuck on their surcharge?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagar the horrible Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 This year the TT cost the Government £8million to stage. It attracted 35000 visitors, if all them visitor spent £1000 each it would generate £35million into the Manx economy, how many times is the £35mill taxed? Is the breakdown of the 8 Million available? does it include all costs ie a proportion of the tourist boards annual budget which I reckon would be at least half plus all the extra policing and other emergency service costs etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Considering it's a figure he plucked out of the air and made up, I doubt very much a breakdown is available. They certainly haven't spent any money on the hosting for the MGP website. It's exceeded its bandwidth limit so now I have no idea if the roads are closed today at any point. Brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyrotten Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 In conclusion- yes a cancelation would lead to less deaths, and more to the point, i believe, less inconveince for a few weeks a year but........ i wonder how many have considered the other side of the coin Amazing. Yet another who honestly believes that a few deaths and amputations are a reasonable price to pay if it keeps the manx economy ticking along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyrotten Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 So, in a nutshell, you are saying that so long as there are tourists and revenue streams, we should accept the deaths that arise as a result? Without compunction. Thats the thin end of a very large wedge.... Well if its ok for the Ski slopes then its OK for us. How many motorists under 25 have been killed on Manx open roads in the last 12months You're doing it again. Confusing what happens in other sports as a justification for what happens in the TT/MGP. And then confusing it again by suggesting that deaths cause by RTA's are in some watyy relevant. Neither of these pieces of information has anything to do with the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Considering it's a figure he plucked out of the air and made up, I doubt very much a breakdown is available. They certainly haven't spent any money on the hosting for the MGP website. It's exceeded its bandwidth limit so now I have no idea if the roads are closed today at any point. Brilliant! Looks like it's back online again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Considering it's a figure he plucked out of the air and made up, I doubt very much a breakdown is available. They certainly haven't spent any money on the hosting for the MGP website. It's exceeded its bandwidth limit so now I have no idea if the roads are closed today at any point. Brilliant! Sorry error in posting should read £2.8 million to run the TT, and the figure has not been plucked out of the air, its the figure published, as to the £1000 spent by each visitor this is on the low side, my fuel and tyre bill alone for this years TT over £5 k and that would be an average per competitor http://www.iomtoday.co.im/isle-of-man-busi...cost.5338545.jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 £1000 spent by each visitor this is on the low side, my fuel and tyre bill alone for this years TT over £5 k and that would be an average per competitor That's your estimate of costs per competitor not visitors. Or are you now claiming each of the 35,000 visitors buys tyres and fuel to the value of over 5k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 £1000 spent by each visitor this is on the low side, my fuel and tyre bill alone for this years TT over £5 k and that would be an average per competitor That's your estimate of costs per competitor not visitors. Or are you now claiming each of the 35,000 visitors buys tyres and fuel to the value of over 5k? No but I would estimated that each visitor would spend over £1000 to visit and stay at the TT for the week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Sorry error in posting should read £2.8 million to run the TT, and the figure has not been plucked out of the air, its the figure published, as to the £1000 spent by each visitor this is on the low side, my fuel and tyre bill alone for this years TT over £5 k and that would be an average per competitor I think the TT probably does earn the Island Money but as the article linked says it's very difficult to come to a definite figure, however the £2.8 mil isn't the full cost to the public purse. There's extra police, the road work, the hospital costs, other infrastructure costs such as the money spent on the grandstand over the years. As usual your argument is over simplistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Sorry error in posting should read £2.8 million to run the TT, and the figure has not been plucked out of the air, its the figure published, as to the £1000 spent by each visitor this is on the low side, my fuel and tyre bill alone for this years TT over £5 k and that would be an average per competitor I think the TT probably does earn the Island Money but as the article linked says it's very difficult to come to a definite figure, however the £2.8 mil isn't the full cost to the public purse. There's extra police, the road work, the hospital costs, other infrastructure costs such as the money spent on the grandstand over the years. As usual your argument is over simplistic. Indeed. Plus also the time/cost implications of rerouting commercial vehicles when roads are closed. Plus the cost to businesses which cannot operate when the roads are closed and have to remain closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terse Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 No but I would estimated that each visitor would spend over £1000 to visit and stay at the TT for the week Most of which would go to the Steam Packet and be banked in Oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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