Dave Hedgehog Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Mont Blanch alone had 16 fatalities this season, and they don't have 30000 hairy arsed skiers at any one time probbally a max of 8/900 in a week 8/900 hairy arsed bikers climb Mont Blanc each week You learn something new every day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Mont Blanch alone had 16 fatalities this season, and they don't have 30000 hairy arsed skiers at any one time probbally a max of 8/900 in a week In excess of 20,000 reach the summit each year and rouughly the same number do not. The TT/MGP has 3 or 4 hundred riders. So that is about a ratio of about 1:100 which deathwise still seems to give it to the TT/MGP as a percentage of participants. Can we be knocked from our top spot? You are quoting all participants, 3 or 4 hundred competitors plus spectators on bike ride the TT roads and do many laps, how many of the ones you quoted attempt more than one climb. A competitor at the TT will try and get twenty practice laps plus the races, more chance being killed on MontBlanch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 More bikes go over Snaefell per day than skiers down slopes in one day at MontBlanch. 16 deaths at one resort (8 in one day alone)in a short season is worse that any TT/MGP stats Lee, that is just utter horseshit. This whole argument is bollocks, simply for the reason that two wrongs don't make a right. Skiiing fatalities should be minimised also. But that aside, you don't understand comparative statistics at all. You also don't need to guess at this stuff, it's very well researched, an example is the following study from 2005: Skiing/snowboarding (11/05) 2004 number of fatalities* 45 Number of participants (in millions)** 12.2 Fatalities per million participants 3.69 Days of participation (in millions)* 56.9 Fatalities per days of participation rate (per million) .79 Swimming 2004 number of fatalities*** 2,900 (Drowning: Includes drownings of person swimming or playing in water, or falling into water, except on home premises or at work. Excludes drownings involving boats, which are in water transportation) 2004 Number of participants (in millions)** 53.4 Fatalities per million participants 54.3 Days of participation (in millions)** 2294 Fatalities per days of participation rate (per million) 1.26 Bicycling (resulting from collisions with motor vehicles) 2004 number of fatalities*** 900 Number of participants (in millions)** 40.3 Fatalities per million participants 22.3 Days of participation (in millions)** 2,379 By days of participation rate (per million) .38 2005 TT number of fatities: 9 Number of participants: 350 (being generous here) Fatalities per million participants: 111105.55 Days of participation: 262 Fatalities by days of participation rate: 29.16 Feel free to check my figures, my maths aren't great Note the final numbers in each set, fatalities by days of participation. That's the level of risk vs time spent doing that activity. It's pointless to compare fatality numbers alone. It's pointless to compare the public skiing in big numbers to motorcycle racers racing round a track. One death is too many, any deaths should be prevented, and justifying those deaths by the money they line our pockets with is about as low as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Game Set and Match to Slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Quote slim One death is too many, any deaths should be prevented, and justifying those deaths by the money they line our pockets with is about as low as you can get. I agree with this, How much do these resorts make compared to the Island. Whats the value of a death in these resorts and activities. Most are using the deaths at the TT a reason to ban it when in fact you have other hidden agendas. What causes the delays in getting into work most mornings and out in the evening, I found no difference between a normal working day and TT week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 More bikes go over Snaefell per day than skiers down slopes in one day at MontBlanch. 16 deaths at one resort (8 in one day alone)in a short season is worse that any TT/MGP stats And what relevence is this as I have seen noboby suggest that riding bikes over Snaefell should be banned. 2,907 people died during one day in aeroplane crashes in one city. Does that alone been flying is statistacally unsafe, no because millions of people fly daily perfectly safely. Again 16 deaths at one resort is bad but out of what numbers because as a statistic it is probably much lower than the 8 who died in the TT/MGP during one year. If proponents of the TT like you believe that one death or what ever per 100 participants each year is acceptable then fine, I would not agree with you but I would have much more respect for an honest opinion on the matter that people trying to hide behind bogus statistics and not face the trusth. I accept that some things in life are dangerous and that doing any activity organised or not there may be fatalities. I do not want them all banned as I accept there is an element of risk. I do though have views on what elements of risk should be acceptable and putting on an event where it is expected at least one out of probably less than 200 competitors will die I believe is unacceptable. Especially as every death seems to hardly causes anybody to miss a beat, they and the debris are just pushed to the side why the race carries on. In fact I think if a race was stopped as a result of a fatality that would cause much more of an outcry which seems to me we may have got our priorities a bit confused somewhere along the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 You are quoting all participants, 3 or 4 hundred competitors plus spectators on bike ride the TT roads and do many laps, how many of the ones you quoted attempt more than one climb. A competitor at the TT will try and get twenty practice laps plus the races, more chance being killed on MontBlanch Please reference your mont blanc figures. A study in 2009 "Mountain mortality: a review of deaths that occur during recreational activities in the mountains" concludes: "Among skiers and snowboarders, the mortality rate calculated by this method ranges from 0.11 in long distance cross country ski races in Sweden to 2.46 deaths per million exposure days in the downhill ski resorts of Utah, USA." This matches the figures in the separate study above. How many professional racing skiiers died in 2005 Lee? I'll help you, it's none. How many professional racing bikers died in the 2005 on the mountain circuit Lee? I'll help you, it's nine. How many professional racing skiiers died in the last ten years while racing in competition Lee? How much do these resorts make compared to the Island. Whats the value of a death in these resorts and activities. I don't give a fuck Lee, I don't live on a skii resort. The very simple "two wrongs don't make a right" seems to be completely lost on you. Most are using the deaths at the TT a reason to ban it when in fact you have other hidden agendas.What causes the delays in getting into work most mornings and out in the evening, I found no difference between a normal working day and TT week. How do you know this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 MONT BLANCH 2008 Ski Touring 10 Off Piste Skiing 3 Snowboard Touring 2 Off Piste Snowboarding 0 Snowshoeing 0 Climbing 12 Walking 2 Skiing 0 Total for the season 29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 MONT BLANCH 2008 Ski Touring 10 Off Piste Skiing 3 Snowboard Touring 2 Off Piste Snowboarding 0 Snowshoeing 0 Climbing 12 Walking 2 Skiing 0 Total for the season 29 Well done, zero racing fatalities. So racing in the TT is infinitely more dangerous than skiiing. Thanks for clearing that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 MONT BLANCH 2008 Ski Touring 10 Off Piste Skiing 3 Snowboard Touring 2 Off Piste Snowboarding 0 Snowshoeing 0 Climbing 12 Walking 2 Skiing 0 Total for the season 29 At this juncture, perhaps you should introduce the mortality rates for japanese kamikaze pilots. It's about as relevant as the rest of the garbage you're posting. This is not France. Theres only one very small mountain here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 So mountain climbing is not a sport Slim. Because its in our own back yard is the only reason you take notice. Death happens in sport all over the world but is not always reported. http://www.boarderz.ru/Snow/press/Art1503/?currentlang=1 How does a death of a rider at the TT effect your life ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Mont Blanch alone had 16 fatalities this season, and they don't have 30000 hairy arsed skiers at any one time probbally a max of 8/900 in a week In excess of 20,000 reach the summit each year and rouughly the same number do not. The TT/MGP has 3 or 4 hundred riders. So that is about a ratio of about 1:100 which deathwise still seems to give it to the TT/MGP as a percentage of participants. Can we be knocked from our top spot? You are quoting all participants, 3 or 4 hundred competitors plus spectators on bike ride the TT roads and do many laps, how many of the ones you quoted attempt more than one climb. A competitor at the TT will try and get twenty practice laps plus the races, more chance being killed on MontBlanch I am quoting participants because that is what we are discussing, i.e. the number of riders who are KILLED riding in the TT/MGP each year. Many hundreds of thousands visit the foothils of Mount Blanc as tourists each year to walk in the foothills, take in the views. I can add those into the stastics if you want to add in the number of spectatots for the TT/MGP. I apprecaite riders may do numerous laps over two weeks but spend a limited amount of time on the course allowing for practice sessions that is probably about 24 hours at most on closed roads. To climb Mount Blanc climbers are generally on the mountain for a couple of days. I note you quickly removed your post that said "Among skiers and snowboarders, the mortality rate calculated by this method ranges from 0.11 in long distance cross country ski races in Sweden to 2.46 deaths per million exposure days in the downhill ski resorts of Utah, USA." Just for the you, if we treat a race or practice day as an exposure day and allow for 200 out on each of those days over the TT/MGP a rate of 2.46 deaths per million exposure deaths would if applied to the TT equate to one death every century! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 So mountain climbing is not a sport Slim. It's not a competative sport Lee, no. It's more of an activity. You're comparing a sporting event with something people do recreationally. It'd be fairer therefore to compare all motorocycle road deaths with all mountaineering deaths, but you'd still have to work out participant numbers and hours of time spent doing that activity rather than plucking out fatality totals and dancing round like homer with a doughnut. Death happens in sport all over the world but is not always reported.http://www.boarderz.ru/Snow/press/Art1503/?currentlang=1 None of those people were competing for prizemoney in a nationally sponsored event. Here's another quick headline stat, you'll like this. Number of UK troops in afganistan in 2009: 8,000 Number of UK troop fatalities in afganistan in 2009: 75 Fatalities per person year to date: 0.009375 Number of racers on the course in 2005: 350 Number of fatalities on the course in 2005 TT: 9 Fatalities per person 2005: 0.025 So, three weeks ish racing on the mountain circuit is more dangerous than nine months in active service in afganistan. And the death rate there is currently the front page of every newspaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 The sad thing is, all too many people die at a ripe old age having not done f**k all - with all too many regretting that fact. Live and let live, and live and let die - is my motto - and a poke in the eye for Nanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 So mountain climbing is not a sport Slim. It's not a competative sport Lee, no. It's more of an activity. You're comparing a sporting event with something people do recreationally. It'd be fairer therefore to compare all motorocycle road deaths with all mountaineering deaths, but you'd still have to work out participant numbers and hours of time spent doing that activity rather than plucking out fatality totals and dancing round like homer with a doughnut. Death happens in sport all over the world but is not always reported.http://www.boarderz.ru/Snow/press/Art1503/?currentlang=1 None of those people were competing for prizemoney in a nationally sponsored event. Here's another quick headline stat, you'll like this. Number of UK troops in afganistan in 2009: 8,000 Number of UK troop fatalities in afganistan in 2009: 75 Fatalities per person year to date: 0.009375 Number of racers on the course in 2005: 350 Number of fatalities on the course in 2005 TT: 9 Fatalities per person 2005: 38.8 So, three weeks ish racing on the mountain circuit is more dangerous than nine months in active service in afganistan. And the death rate there is currently the front page of every newspaper. I don't agree with soldiers going to Afghanistan to fight in a war that has fuck all to do with us They signed up for the adventure just like riders that sign on to compete at the TT, they all know the risks, but do we have the right to stop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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