Are The Entry Requirements For The Tt/mgp Too Lax?

[Chinahand]

I've been reading with interest the various threads discussing accidents and deaths due to the TT MGP etc and wondering how to pull it out of the usual shagfest between the committed bikers and those who find the impact of the racing no longer acceptable.

 

I think one issue missed in the debate is that the TT MGP etc are different from picking mushrooms, or horse riding etc, in that they are organized events.

 

Not everyone can take part and the organizers require the participants to hold certain licences and to have taken part in so many qualifying races etc before they will allow them to race. They also charge a fee - part of which covers the cost of an unbelieveably, and in my mind, immorally low level of insurance cover.

 

These are deliberate barriers to entry to stop too many applicants and most especially too inexperienced racers been given access to a course well known for its ability to kill and maim.

 

Now my feeling is that it is most definitely possible for the organizers to tighten the rules - the result would be that there would be a smaller field of higher ability riders and as a result I believe there would be fewer accidents.

 

That for me is surely a win win solution - the racing would still go on, the crowds would still see the best riders competing, but simply statistically with fewer higher ability racers it is highly likely that there will be fewer deaths.

 

Obviously this doesn't remove the risk of people dying - but a higher ability rider has a lower chance of getting into trouble and a higher probability of being able to get out of that trouble without a catastophic accident.

 

Currently I find the accident rates on the Island from racing unacceptable.

 

I feel that it is simply wrong, given the death toll, for the organizers not to take measures to improve the safety of the events they are organizing.

 

Do you agree?

[The Toad Of Toad Hall]

Judging by the number of accidents and fatalities, yes the entry requirements need to be made stricter. However, I personally think that the days of road racing on the IOM are numbered.

[GringoQ]

Good way to bring up your 3000th post.

 

I think the TT entry regs are strict enough, perhaps a lower age limit might be sensible but then again these regs are driven by the ACU not the IoM.

 

The MGP is different, I think it's far too easy to get an entry for the MGP. Experience of 7 different tracks, for locals 4 of which are usually Jurby Airfield clockwise & anti clockwise and Jurby road clockwise & anti clockwise isn't enough in my opinion.

[philwebs]

What is the kill rate for the TT and MGP, and is it significant?

 

Say a dozen bikers (in races and during the TT and MGP) festivals get killed.

Say 40,000 bikers are over for the TT, and say 20,000 for the MGP.

Kill rate (12 x 100) / 60,000 = 0.02%

 

What is the typical kill rate for those same 60,000 people if they are not allowed anywhere near a bike....or are they immortal.

 

To my mind the kill rate is not significant. Riders will always want to test themselves and self preservation will mostly prevent fatalities. At the speeds they do there are narrow margins between success and catastrophe, being on the edge.

 

I say let them have their fun (even though at times they are a pain) and try to make it as safe as possible.

 

Phil

[Chinahand]

Erm Phil - we are talking about deaths from racing - the 40K or 20K spectators aren't relevent to this debate - there are issues around improving road safety on the Island as a certain percentage of those spectators don't get home, but your "kill rate" is disengenious at best and basically irrelevent to the issue - the deaths from people driving to and from silverstone have zero relevence to whether silverstone is dangerous!

[Cambon]

Qualifying for the TT is much harder than it used to be and the racers we get today are of much higher standard than they were just a few years ago. This has helped lower the lower the figures quite dramatically over the last 3 or so years. However, Entry to the MGP does concern me a bit (quite a lot actually). At least the MGP bikes are less powerful and they have to use treaded tyres for safety. Same goes for S100.

[WTF]

though i understand what chinahand is getting at, i don't think it will make a lot if any difference. it is often the 'stars' that end up dead. phil mellor, mark farmer, david jeffries. then there's the local stars with road knowledge, phil hogg, ian ogden, paul rome,tommy clucas, john smythe ( sorry if i missed anyone, no disrespect intended i knew 4 of the 5 locals listed and i'm not saying it was rider error either i think phil hogg had an engine seize and TC also suffered mechanical failure. i don't have info on the others) i realise that some fatallities are those with not a lot of course experience, but it is still more likely to be someone of repute pushing the limits that ends up crashing.

[wazir]

Could you include a box for "It's clearly insane to drive motorbikes at speed on small roads and people will surely be killed and maimed ever year until someone ends this madness"? It will get at least one vote.

[Mr. Sausages]

It seems to be common sense that the more experienced riders are less likely to crash, but are there any stats that back it up?

 

It could be that in reality the newcomers are more cautious, and it's the ones with a bit of experience that have the confidence to push themselves harder that have the serious accidents. I dunno though.

[WTF]

It seems to be common sense that the more experienced riders are less likely to crash, but are there any stats that back it up?

 

It could be that in reality the newcomers are more cautious, and it's the ones with a bit of experience that have the confidence to push themselves harder that have the serious accidents. I dunno though.

 

i see what you are saying, but it seems to me that whenever i hear of a fatallity it is a known name ( though i hadn't heard of mr barlett till this week ) even the non fatal crashes usually seem to be the top runners. maybe it is just my memory of things, i suppose i'm going to remember the known names over those i've not heard of??

[KMC]

I’ve often wondered whether or not they should allow team members to put up pit boards around the course, as this to me could spur a rider on even faster if they felt they were lagging a bit or someone was catching them!!

 

I’ve often thought that possibly a rider who is going at a steady pace and within their own comfort zone, may try that little bit harder and take greater risk in order to maintain or improve their position on the road?

 

As regards the entry requirements, then yes they could look to tighten them up, and thus only allow the more skilled riders to compete, but then again, even those that are deemed skillful and accomplished road racers from other areas could be competing for the first time around the course, and it is a hard course to master in anyone’s book.

 

Maybe a compulsory one-week stay on the IOM prior to the racing could be a solution for newcomers, whereby they will be required to study the course by riding around under supervision and also in a classroom environment?

 

Oh, and I went for the third option as it happens.

[Albert Tatlock]

I’ve often wondered whether or not they should allow team members to put up pit boards around the course, as this to me could spur a rider on even faster if they felt they were lagging a bit or someone was catching them!!

 

I’ve often thought that possibly a rider who is going at a steady pace and within their own comfort zone, may try that little bit harder and take greater risk in order to maintain or improve their position on the road?

That's why it's called 'Motorcycle Racing' as opposed to 'Motorcycle Tootling Along' numbnuts.

[keyboarder]

numbnuts.

Actually, that's being a bit harsh on KMC, who might well have a valid point. It could be worth investigating how many crashes occurred shortly after getting the hurry up from a board. A ban, although radical and hard to police, could possibly have a positive effect. As far as the poll goes, I have no idea what the entry requirements are so didn't vote. But like WTF says, there are many very experienced casualties so it might not make much difference one way or the other.

[Albert Tatlock]

numbnuts.

Actually, that's being a bit harsh on KMC, who might well have a valid point. It could be worth investigating how many crashes occurred shortly after getting the hurry up from a board. A ban, although radical and hard to police, could possibly have a positive effect. As far as the poll goes, I have no idea what the entry requirements are so didn't vote. But like WTF says, there are many very experienced casualties so it might not make much difference one way or the other.

[keyboarder]

Uh, go where?