Lao Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 i have a little something to add on the whole "i dont know" Vs an obvious creator thing. first imagine if you can a two dimentional being, he has height and width but no depth, a playing card so to speak but rather than just being very very thin he has no depth at all, as you walk around him in a circle when you get to the side he seems to disapear. as he is 2 dimensional so is his world, so lets now imagine this to be a large sheet of paper spread out on a desk. If as he is moving from one end of this sheet to the other we fold the sheet into a tube so that the left and right edges meet he will be able to walk from one end of the sheet to the other. To him it would seem at though he has teleported magically from one end to the other, while it makes perfect sense to us that the sheet is mearly a tube in which he has walked around, he is completely unaware of the third dimension that the sheet is folded through and would simply see it as a flat sheet. when we try to theorise what came before the big bang we suffer from a similar handicap as our 2 dimentional friend, trying to understand "a time before time" or what could have been in place before the laws of physics as we know them or a dimensionless place that was not nothingness, is a staggeringly difficult task. in the face of such a difficult and hugely complex task i can understand why the average person would want to just say a god did it, and get back to thinking about more imediately important things, but that answer will always stifle our need to know and will hold back the progress of the human race. I hope our best and brightest continue to ask the big questions, and strive to find the answers unhindered by God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 The omnipotent being may well be a fool, but to have created all this suggests a certain level of intelligence. No, it doesn't. That may be illogical but so are eveloutionary (sp) theories... Well evolution is not a theory, it is fact. ...in that I believe there has to have been something/someone there "from time immemorial" for all this to happen. That someone/something may well have been a fool to have produced something so flawed as we are now but maybe in the future all will be redeemed and it's part of the growing up process. Very little designed works perfectly immediately.Anyway, until someone can demonstrate beyond any doubt I stick to my beliefs. If they are your beliefs then fair enough. I am surprised that where there are not yet or never will be answers to certain unknowns that you look to an intelligent being to satisfy your curiosity, but if that's what works for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 obfuscate Was that word necessary?... Silly, Lala will pick up on it and use it totally out of context now. Won't you Lala. I don't know what you mean at all. I think I have a good grasp on the English language. Bloody cheek hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Physicists are getting pretty sophisticated with exploring ideas of nothing ( for just one!), they are working on multiple dimensions etc etc etc. Multiple dimensions and nothingness, huh? Sounds a bit like when that lightfingered Swiss chap pilfered Poincare and geometry, called it 'Relativity' and had the audacity to put his name to it. Trust that dreary physics mob to be so behind the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevster Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Yes, the Bible is real - I've actually seen one. I've also seen white dog shit, so that is real as well. Edit: Just because they're real doesn't stop them being crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punisher Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 There are no god’s to worship just a parallel universe where you go to once your body is no more - nothing to do with spirits, souls, religion etc - There is more to this life which your eyes will not allow you to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Yes, the Bible is real - I've actually seen one. I've also seen white dog shit, so that is real as well. Edit: Just because they're real doesn't stop them being crap. The thread asks ‘Is the bible real or not real’? The Bible is a collection of books, and so the most appropriate answer to the question actually comes from ‘keyster’, though I doubt if he realises such to be the case. As to if those books contain truth, fiction, advice, demands, prophecy, whatever, that’s another matter. There is also the question of what the intent was in having the various books, for example the Pentateuch which are in essence the Torah and form the basis of the whole religion based on God. To then question ‘Why God, and who IS this God anyway’ opens up a whole new can of worms and leads to the Egyptian Pantheon of Gods and emergence of the God Amun-Ra as a result of the (probably political) decision of Akhenaten.who was to pay a terrible price. This came about when some time after his death the priests had their gods and hence their power restored and set about destroying every cartouche of Akhenaten and so, in their belief, denying him existence in the hereafter.. What is of particular interests is that Amun-Ra was especially worshiped by the people of ‘Set Maat’, a village that housed the people who built the Egyptian tombs. And that includes the tribes of workers who wanted to leave and who were eventually released because it was believed by the Egyptians to be bad luck to hold them back owing to the curses that they brought by their continued presence. There is a prayer carved on a monument there that reads --- who comes at the voice of the poor in distress, who gives breath to him who is wretched..You are Amun, the Lord of the silent, who comes at the voice of the poor, when I call to you in my distress You come and rescue me...Though the servant was disposed to do evil, the Lord is disposed to forgive. The Lord of Thebes spends not a whole day in anger, His wrath passes in a moment, none remains. His breath comes back to us in mercy. May your ka be kind, may you forgive, It shall not happen again. There’s just too much about Amin-Ra that relates just too closely with the Jewish God to be coincidence. For those with sod all better to do there’s a book that goes into this in a bit of detail. It’s Moses the Egyptian, ISBN 067458739. Maybe worth reading, probably not worth buying. Oh bugger. Why couldn’t I have developed a hobby like philately instead of comparative religion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted September 5, 2009 Author Share Posted September 5, 2009 My view is that religion, and thus the associated bible and other 'religious handbooks' and their spread and popularity, is due to a variety of factors including not least: a) ignorance, illiteracy, poor education and general intelligence levels in the normal distribution. Most humans need to be taught what to think. b) the lust for power and control, and a need for societies to be controlled to avoid an unacceptable 'free for all'. Most humans need and accept the need to be led and controlled. c) perhaps the biggest factor, laziness and a general lack of curiousity, which seems to be drummed out of most of our lives now after we leave school. Most humans choose to remain truly ignorant about the world and the universe around them. ...and related to that... d) Needs - food, shelter, money, capitalism, 'the system' etc. Most humans haven't got much time left in their short life spans to devote time to thinking - as they prioritise and concentrate their lives on earning money, raising families, dealing with illnesses and death etc. This was especially so in the not so distant past, when life was much harder and the average life span was typically half what it is today. Most humans are allowed little time 'in the system' for, and give low priority to, deep thinking - and scientists and those that do understand the world and universe around us are not chosen as leaders. The system gives power, control, resources and decision making to those least capable of moving the human race forward The existence of many different religions is simply down to those same factors above, combined with geography, and the past lack of technology (poor communication and travel opportunities isolating large populations, which also resulted in so many languages and countries). Humans have a very long way to go yet on the evolutionary path and are yet but ants in the large garden and city that is the universe - and it will take something significant to shake them from their current state at the moment, such as probably a visit from aliens - which if you do understand the world and universe around us and its size and complexity, as well as probability and statistics, is most probably a future certainty. If anything, religion and those factors above have pushed back that human evolutionary path by several thousand years, simply because at the moment at this stage of our evolution (2000BC to 2000AD) we choose to remain so inwardly focussed and ignorant of what is there for all of us to see at night if we just look up into the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 My view is that religion, and thus the associated bible and other 'religious handbooks' and their spread and popularity, is due to a variety of factors including not least: a) ignorance, illiteracy, poor education and general intelligence levels in the normal distribution. Most humans need to be taught what to think. b) the lust for power and control, and a need for societies to be controlled to avoid an unacceptable 'free for all'. Most humans need and accept the need to be led and controlled. c) perhaps the biggest factor, laziness and a general lack of curiousity, which seems to be drummed out of most of our lives now after we leave school. Most humans choose to remain truly ignorant about the world and the universe around them. ...and related to that... d) Needs - food, shelter, money, capitalism, 'the system' etc. Most humans haven't got much time left in their short life spans to devote time to thinking - as they prioritise and concentrate their lives on earning money, raising families, dealing with illnesses and death etc. This was especially so in the not so distant past, when life was much harder and the average life span was typically half what it is today. Most humans are allowed little time 'in the system' for, and give low priority to, deep thinking - and scientists and those that do understand the world and universe around us are not chosen as leaders. The system gives power, control, resources and decision making to those least capable of moving the human race forward The existence of many different religions is simply down to those same factors above, combined with geography, and the past lack of technology (poor communication and travel opportunities isolating large populations, which also resulted in so many languages and countries). Humans have a very long way to go yet on the evolutionary path and are yet but ants in the large garden and city that is the universe - and it will take something significant to shake them from their current state at the moment, such as probably a visit from aliens - which if you do understand the world and universe around us and its size and complexity, as well as probability and statistics, is most probably a future certainty. If anything, religion and those factors above have pushed back that human evolutionary path by several thousand years, simply because at the moment at this stage of our evolution (2000BC to 2000AD) we choose to remain so inwardly focussed and ignorant of what is there for all of us to see at night if we just look up into the sky. Not much in that I'd argue with except maybe to add that religion does provide a means of passing down hard learned lessons that get taken as read and not, up to fairly recently, questioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jehovah Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC-Drift.com Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I believe it's just a book of good moral stories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Yes, the Bible is real - I've actually seen one. I've also seen white dog shit, so that is real as well. Edit: Just because they're real doesn't stop them being crap. You think you've seen a bible. But how do you know that have really? How do you know that bibles actually exist? And how do you know that what you saw was a bible? And how do you know you saw anything at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombay Bad Boy Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 In Jurby Junk books, there is a bible shelved under 'Fiction'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somewhatdamaged Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I believe we were all made by Galactus using the Power Cosmic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I believe it's just a book of good moral stories Not good morals! I believe we were all made by Galactus using the Power Cosmic. You mean the great Galactus from Marvel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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