Treasury Responds To Finance Sector Job Losses

[bellyup]

Criticise criticise and criticise

 

What do you suggest

 

Government does not employ these people. Why not lobby the employers, why not get the members at risk to join a strong union.

 

All government can dis create the right environment for businesses to flourish or not. What is wrong with out environment apart from work permits, which must go, and over regulation which given the climate internationally we are stuck with

 

We have better tax incentives, better available work force, better place to live and bring up families

 

I repaeat apart from prophesying doom what should we do

 

If only the prospects for work in the future were at all positive.

 

They're not.

 

They are not any good in the UK either so if unemployed Manx people in the UK decide to come home?

[earwacs]

If unemployed Manxies come home they'll probably find they can't afford to buy or rent anywhere to live. Well until the market adjusts maybe...

[gazza]

to be honest the manxis shoulden have to worry about stopping work permits.

 

if your good at the job thay do then whats the worry thay will be employed.

 

if somebody from the uk gets the job then thay must be better at that job

[thesultanofsheight]

All government can dis create the right environment for businesses to flourish or not. What is wrong with out environment apart from work permits, which must go, and over regulation which given the climate internationally we are stuck with

 

Spoken not as a Manxman though John is it? The minute the stamp comes off my passport so I can work anywhere in Europe is the minute they can do away with the work permit situation. Europe actively discriminates against the Manx why shouldn't rules apply here restricting foreign workers from taking jobs off the Manx? It may not be any problem to you who has freedom to work elsewhere but many of us do not.

[Slim]

to be honest the manxis shoulden have to worry about stopping work permits.

 

if your good at the job thay do then whats the worry thay will be employed.

 

if somebody from the uk gets the job then thay must be better at that job

 

Not as straightforward as that though is it? What about the seasonal staff that come here and are prepared to leave their family at home where the cost of living is much less. He can afford to work for much less, and send cash home than a manx family man who has to pay local costs for himself and his family. That's not about being good at your job, that's about value for money for the employer.

 

It's a tricky issue for sure.

[pongo]

Europe actively discriminates against the Manx why shouldn't rules apply here restricting foreign workers from taking jobs off the Manx? It may not be any problem to you who has freedom to work elsewhere but many of us do not.

 

Tit-for-tat measures and counter measures would attempt (but fail) to address different issues.

 

The issue is about maintaining an environment in which companies are encouraged to go about their business with the minimum of interference with respect to who they employ or at what price; that it should be up to the person paying who they choose - that way promoting a free economy and encouraging economic activity in general. And allowing companies to employ the very best people they can find for the price.

 

Companies in other places are not forced to employ from only the immediate few miles. Imagine if the City was only allowed to recruit people who were actually born within a few miles.

[The Voice of Reason]

Companies in other places are not forced to employ from only the immediate few miles. Imagine if the City was only allowed to recruit people who were actually born within a few miles.

 

It's really only a matter of degree. If a firm in the City wanted to employ a non EU national it would have to go through many hoops

[pongo]

Companies in other places are not forced to employ from only the immediate few miles. Imagine if the City was only allowed to recruit people who were actually born within a few miles.

 

It's really only a matter of degree. If a firm in the City wanted to employ a non EU national it would have to go through many hoops

 

A fair point relatively. But the local pool is probably sometimes physical too small for many employers looking for good people who they can work well with. They need to be able to pull people in from a wider area.

 

One of the good things about a recession is that in a properly competitive environment it gives employers the chance the pick from a bigger selection of potentials at a better price. It would be a pity to remove that economic advantage - since those are the sorts of advantages of recession which create future booms.

[Snaipyr]

to be honest the manxis shoulden have to worry about stopping work permits.

 

if your good at the job thay do then whats the worry thay will be employed.

 

if somebody from the uk gets the job then thay must be better at that job

 

A spelling test could be a good idea!

[gazza]

to be honest the manxis shoulden have to worry about stopping work permits.

 

if your good at the job thay do then whats the worry thay will be employed.

 

if somebody from the uk gets the job then thay must be better at that job

 

A spelling test could be a good idea!

 

o sod of u ass.

and take your spelling with u

[gazza]

to be honest the manxis shoulden have to worry about stopping work permits.

 

if your good at the job thay do then whats the worry thay will be employed.

 

if somebody from the uk gets the job then thay must be better at that job

 

Not as straightforward as that though is it? What about the seasonal staff that come here and are prepared to leave their family at home where the cost of living is much less. He can afford to work for much less, and send cash home than a manx family man who has to pay local costs for himself and his family. That's not about being good at your job, that's about value for money for the employer.

 

It's a tricky issue for sure.

 

thats a fair point.

but u prob find a lot of these jobs that i assume u talking about the ppl from the EU take. are jobs that a lot of manx ppl will not take.

 

some of these jobs cant afford to pay top wagers and have to be low.

[Nkon]

There are many issues with respect to the work permit system.

1. 6 years ago I was encouraged to come to the island with my family to fill a vacancy that couldn't be filled by a Manx worker.

2. We sold our house in the UK purchased a house on the Island.

3. My wife (a teacher) found employment and as a family we had happily settled here.

3. 3 years ago I got made redundant.

 

The first 6 months of looking for work were a nightmare due to the work permit system (reasons for not interviewing were "you are not a Manx worker") . It was then I decided to start my own business. Still needed 3 work permits because of variety of work I would be carrying out. The business solely supports customers outside the Isle of Man but still needed these permits as a Manx taxpayer.

 

I would still rather find a job here than spend the rest of my life travelling around the world indefinitely. After over 100 job applications (most of those in the last 6 months) I am still looking for suitable employment. I am willing to retrain but it is never clear in what area that training should be. The Dti through the job centre, career guidance or training dept cannot offer me any advice. This would indicate that the Dti does not understand what skill gaps exist on the Island.

 

After listening to other people in similar situations I know that there are many people in similar situations who are well qualified with plenty of experience but end up working in jobs which fall well below their level of experience or knowledge.

 

For the work permit system to work we need to look towards supporting the businesses on the Island by providing a suitably skilled and trained workforce from within. The DTi should be encouraging businesses to take on people who clearly have the ability by way of training grants (the within 12 months rule within the WP rules should be more rigorously enforced).

 

For my own part I have no intention of leaving the Island. I do not want to have to work away from home for extended periods indefinitely. I am willing to re-train in my own time and expense if someone could indicate in what that should be in to increase my chances of employment. I am willing to work for a very low salary while I am being trained, I would even consider working for no wage at all for the first 3 months while training.

 

The WP system run by the DTi is not proactive. For the system to work the government needs to understand the skill gaps that exist on the Island and provide training for the individual and support for the business to fill these gaps from within.

 

The current head in the sand and sticking plaster approach by the DTi is symptomatic of all government departments.

 

I have always believed that some control is needed but this should be used only to support a strategy to raise of the skills of the existing population with the aim of reducing the number of work permits issued in the long term. The current system is neither efficient or useful to businesses and does nothing to improve the skill base within the existing population.

[Albert Tatlock]

There are many issues with respect to the work permit system.

1. 6 years ago I was encouraged to come to the island with my family to fill a vacancy that couldn't be filled by a Manx worker.

2. We sold our house in the UK purchased a house on the Island.

3. My wife (a teacher) found employment and as a family we had happily settled here.

3. 3 years ago I got made redundant.

 

The first 6 months of looking for work were a nightmare due to the work permit system (reasons for not interviewing were "you are not a Manx worker") . It was then I decided to start my own business. Still needed 3 work permits because of variety of work I would be carrying out. The business solely supports customers outside the Isle of Man but still needed these permits as a Manx taxpayer.

I may be reading your post wrongly and if so I apologise, but I suspect you have not looked into this properly, and have maybe dug an unnecessary hole for yourself via your applications and CV.

 

If your spouse is already employed on a work permit, although you need to apply for one, you will usually have one granted with no objection. This from the horses mouth, as I spoke to the head man at the work permit office not long ago about this very issue on behalf of someone else.

 

You then need to clearly state this on your application, because if you don't, employers will not know your true position.

 

I suggest you contact the WP office again and get them to clarify this for you - then hopefully you can then change your approach to seeking employment.

[Nkon]

There are many issues with respect to the work permit system.

1. 6 years ago I was encouraged to come to the island with my family to fill a vacancy that couldn't be filled by a Manx worker.

2. We sold our house in the UK purchased a house on the Island.

3. My wife (a teacher) found employment and as a family we had happily settled here.

3. 3 years ago I got made redundant.

 

The first 6 months of looking for work were a nightmare due to the work permit system (reasons for not interviewing were "you are not a Manx worker") . It was then I decided to start my own business. Still needed 3 work permits because of variety of work I would be carrying out. The business solely supports customers outside the Isle of Man but still needed these permits as a Manx taxpayer.

I may be reading your post wrongly and if so I apologise, but I suspect you have not looked into this properly, and have maybe dug an unnecessary hole for yourself via your applications and CV.

 

If your spouse is already employed on a work permit, although you need to apply for one, you will usually have one granted with no objection. This from the horses mouth, as I spoke to the head man at the work permit office not long ago about this very issue on behalf of someone else.

 

You then need to clearly state this on your application, because if you don't, employers will not know your true position.

 

I suggest you contact the WP office again and get them to clarify this for you - then hopefully you can then change your approach to seeking employment.

 

Sorry I did not make it clear in my post that I longer need a work permit as I have been a resident for >5years.

When I was made redundant the fact my wife had a permit in her own right made very little difference. On applications this was made clear but was still given a reason that I was not a Manx worker for gaining an interview (the fact that one job applied for was with the IOM gov shows just how little they know about their own rules).

[Rog]

etc

 

What would be your policy Rog? 'Freedom To Flourish' or tighter implementation of regulation ?

 

To start with I’d recognise that the world recession that is taking place is unique.

 

It’s not like any recession in the past when markets corrected themselves.

 

This recession is a symptom of something far more significant, it’s as a result of the continued negative balance of trade between The West and the Rest of the World, especially China, India, and Russia having passed the tipping point.

 

Add to that what can only be described as ‘carpetbagging’ by people and banks in the US surfing on an artificially created housing market bubble.

 

For those reasons along with the measures being taken to crack down on tax dodgers by all the major governments I would not base any medium or long term plans on any restoration of the Finance Sector on the Island.

 

In addition I would look long and hard at the balance of payments that the Island runs and the present Current a/c, as well as the present government liabilities to see just where the pinch points were and were they soon would be.

 

Next I would look very closely at the likely developments in the UK, especially the likely cuts that will be made to address the dreadful condition the UK economy is in on a global rather than a UK internal basis.

 

That because an active internal economy based on growing debt and growing balance of trade imbalance isn’t good news, it a pending disaster and I can’t see the City returning to the money making machine it was ever again. Those days are gone.

 

It’s once more time for a sea change for the Islands economy. The last time was when the tourism industry went tits up and the Financial sector provided a growth area but now the Finance sector is in the process of going tits up

 

The question then becomes not what needs to be done to preserve the status quo and bringing people into the already overcrowded Isle of Man in order to do that is beyond stupid. It’s what comes next and that’s when it becomes subjective and all sorts of factors ranging from the financially viable to the personally acceptable will have to be balanced in order to see what real options exist that should be getting attention.

 

What would I do?

 

I would be looking at tourism to be the potential growth sector but tourism not based on the unquestionably beautiful Island as the selling point, I would be looking at going down market and consequently the mass market in order to attract money to the Island.

 

The question is would the majority of people on the Island be open to the idea of developments of the size and nature that would be needed to move the Isle of Man from ‘the place to flourish’ a concept long past its opportunity, to THE Holiday Isle.

 

A place with huge caravan parks around entertainment complexes, some form of huge theme park, cheap booze and fast food, and a subsidised low cost travel link the England, Ireland, and Scotland, in short what most people want, a place at least no more expensive to get to than The West Country, and ideally cheaper.

 

It could work --- if the Powers That Be and the NIMBY faction don’t get their way.

 

For now work permits for people to take local vacancies?

 

Only as a last resort.