[BBC News] Civil staff reject zero pay rise

[Dave Hedgehog]

The majority of civil servants will get a pay rise this year anyway. In the first few years of their job they get an annual increment (about £600 per year in my time)

 

This pay increase is just a realignment of the scales. The only ones who wouldn't get a rise are the ones who have sat in the same grade for years and years with no desire to move up the ladder.

[RC-Drift.com]

Isn't a zero per cent pay rise better than a zero percent pay cut?

 

Are we supposed to feel sorry? I haven't had a pay increase in 3 years, I don't get sick pay, I don't get the option of a pension and my flat week is well over 37 hours

 

...welcome to the real world

[manxy]

Isn't a zero per cent pay rise better than a zero percent pay cut?

 

Are we supposed to feel sorry? I haven't had a pay increase in 3 years, I don't get sick pay, I don't get the option of a pension and my flat week is well over 37 hours

 

...welcome to the real world

Its sad, but you sound bitter

What would you recommend?

[drivemyself]

Isn't a zero per cent pay rise better than a zero percent pay cut?

 

Are we supposed to feel sorry? I haven't had a pay increase in 3 years, I don't get sick pay, I don't get the option of a pension and my flat week is well over 37 hours

 

...welcome to the real world

 

The problem with this attitude is that it's a race to the bottom.

 

You haven't had a pay increase in 3 years, you don't get sick pay, no pension and you work long hours - so you resent anyone who does get those things? You think civil servants shouldn't get sick pay? Do you think anyone should get sick pay?

 

Ever thought you might be in the wrong job? Ever thought of working for an employer who thought enough of its employees to give them sick pay? If I hadn't had a pay rise for three years I'd either surmise that I was shit at my job or my employer was a cunt (or a very poor business).

 

Government needs to lead by example, if it treats its employees like shit, what message does that send to everyone else? That people are just disposable 'production units' to be used and abused as business sees fit? (Not that the private sector doesn't largely work like that anyway, of course.)

 

Stuff like pensions, sick pay, annual leave and so on are fundamental workers' rights that were fought long and hard for over many decades if not centuries.

 

And let's not forget that civil service vacancies are advertised in the papers every week, so if it's such a gorgeous cushy number - hey, get applying!

[oldmanxfella]

Its sad, but you sound bitter

What would you recommend?

 

Great I've found the link I have been looking for

 

http://www.gov.im/lib/news/treasury/econom...gepayupless.xml

 

Maybe you should read it. I quote "Treasury Minister Allan Bell reflected on the findings in the report that show public sector average pay to be significantly ahead of that in the private sector ........ the 2005 report concludes that average pay across the public sector is some 15% above that in the private sector and this differential has widened over the last four years."

 

So your paid 15% better than private sector workers on average, you have better employment conditions, vastly better pensions, and no chance of being made redundant. Maybe you might wish to reflect why a private sector worker facing redundancy, pay freezes and a great deal of uncertainty might sound bitter - particularly as he's paying for your comfortable existence through his taxes and getting little back himself.

 

Wake up and smell the coffee please. I know hundreds of people that would be delighted just to have the security of a pay freeze. I'm not being anti government worker here at all as many do valuable jobs but please realize on what side your bread is buttered.

 

The economics do not work out.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Isn't a zero per cent pay rise better than a zero percent pay cut?

Are we supposed to feel sorry? I haven't had a pay increase in 3 years, I don't get sick pay, I don't get the option of a pension and my flat week is well over 37 hours

...welcome to the real world

But when you say the 'real world', do you just mean that that's the way it is so lump it? DO you think it is acceptable?

[Sparky]

I have absolutely nothing against government workers. I just found his comments a tad smug and typical of a lot of what I hear from people employed in government.

 

The fact is - as proven in surveys done by government - there is no gap between public and private sector pay, and in addition in the last survey many government workers where being paid better than those on equivalent jobs in the private sector - plus with no risk of redundancy, guaranteed pensions and other benefits.

 

I'm sorry but what I do believe is that we are all paying for this and its totally unsustainable in the current econonic climate and government workers should start appreciating the very comfortable position they are all in.

 

Nail on head, nail on head well said.

[manshimajin]

The problem with this attitude is that it's a race to the bottom...Government needs to lead by example, if it treats its employees like shit, what message does that send to everyone else?

The reality is that the Government treats its employees very well. A zero % salary movement is FAR from treating employees like 'shit'. Given that we are supposed to be living in difficult economic times this decision is leading, as you request, by example. Even the union 'negotiator' seemed to be saying a couple of months back that this sort of settlement would reflect current economic times.

 

I would like to see the politicians doing unto themselves as they do unto others...particularly to replace their defined benefit scheme with a defined contribution one and to haul back on travelling expenses. That would be genuine leadership.

[gazza]

how about pay rises for the ones that are gd,

pay cuts or no pay rises that are doing shit but could do better,

and sack who ever does not make the grade.

 

how can thay just give a full payrise to every person employed, shoulden it go on job performance

[RC-Drift.com]

Stuff like pensions, sick pay, annual leave and so on are fundamental workers' rights that were fought long and hard for over many decades if not centuries.

You've never worked in the construction industry then

[manxy]

Its sad, but you sound bitter

What would you recommend?

 

Great I've found the link I have been looking for

 

http://www.gov.im/lib/news/treasury/econom...gepayupless.xml

 

Maybe you should read it. I quote "Treasury Minister Allan Bell reflected on the findings in the report that show public sector average pay to be significantly ahead of that in the private sector ........ the 2005 report concludes that average pay across the public sector is some 15% above that in the private sector and this differential has widened over the last four years."

 

So your paid 15% better than private sector workers on average, you have better employment conditions, vastly better pensions, and no chance of being made redundant. Maybe you might wish to reflect why a private sector worker facing redundancy, pay freezes and a great deal of uncertainty might sound bitter - particularly as he's paying for your comfortable existence through his taxes and getting little back himself.

 

Wake up and smell the coffee please. I know hundreds of people that would be delighted just to have the security of a pay freeze. I'm not being anti government worker here at all as many do valuable jobs but please realize on what side your bread is buttered.

 

The economics do not work out.

I'd be interested to hearing what the solution is (as asked and unanswered in the last quote), but please note that I partially agreed earlier as to where it should start from?

 

I am pleased however, that you've released some of your frustration onto me and if that makes you feel better, then that's good, as it's not healthy to carry such thoughts and feelings about and certainly can't do you any good in the long run, but I doubt whether any comments said so far will make the slightest difference to what you or I say now or most likely in the future. All it does seem to do so I've noticed, is drag on negative feelings and what benefits can be gained from that?

 

With reference to the differential in the pay, this is the first time I've come across it and I thank you for finding it, but please note that I do pay taxes as well. Interestingly enough, I've been redundant twice in my life and its not a good feeling with the uncertainty of what to do next and therefore do know a little about the other side of the coffee pot. I have however, bounced back and would like to think that I've gained from my experience having worked my way to a position in the civil service. It certainly wasn't an easy road and I'm sure that others haven't been as fortunate as me either and I wish them well and hope for better times ahead.

 

So if you need to have another go at me, then that's fine, but the people with whom you need to speak to, is your MHK and see if he or she will take this on board.

Slaynt vie

[manxy]

how about pay rises for the ones that are gd,

pay cuts or no pay rises that are doing shit but could do better,

and sack who ever does not make the grade.

 

how can thay just give a full payrise to every person employed, shoulden it go on job performance

If only that could be true gazza, but figures and statistics can be manipulated to make any particular person look good and if you want someone to look only adequate, then the goalposts are moved.

I remember once before of wanting everyone to have the same pay increase, so its a tenner for the person on the shop floor, tenner for the supervisor, manager and director etc, but this was laughed off and not viable. The rich get richer it seems regardless of performance.and the Brucey Bonuses and mini hampers or bottles of whiskey at Christmas still go on, but I haven't heard of any payments for those who work extremely hard on the shop floor and I only wish that everyone was equal.

[Tugger]

but please note that I do pay taxes as well

 

Unless your tax bill is higher than your salary, you're still a net cost for the island, as is every single one of your colleagues. Some of them will be worth that cost, some will not. I would like those who are not either (i) not to be a cost at all, or (ii) to be paid commensurately with the benefit they provide to the Isle of Man. I do not believe that this is the case at the moment.

[ian rush]

Even the Grauniad is asking for the axe to be swung in the UK....see final five paragraphs.

 

It would also be interesting to see the full extent of the IoM Govt pension schemes unfunded deficit metioned by Jenkins. That (plus National Insurance which is the biggest Ponzi scheme going) is probably fairly frightening....

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...c-spending-cuts

[manxy]

but please note that I do pay taxes as well

 

Unless your tax bill is higher than your salary, you're still a net cost for the island, as is every single one of your colleagues. Some of them will be worth that cost, some will not. I would like those who are not either (i) not to be a cost at all, or (ii) to be paid commensurately with the benefit they provide to the Isle of Man. I do not believe that this is the case at the moment.

Oh for goodness sake Tugger, I work to make sure that you'll live in an accident. If I'm not worth my pay, then I shudder to think what your values really are and I know there's other professions that are equally in the same ball park and do an excellent job.

 

It's very easy to criticise people from behind a monitor screen giving one way gripes, but its also unfair, as it doesn't explain your personal circumstances as to why you have this problem with the whole of the Civil service. Maybe if you'd like to explain these differences, then I could see where you're coming from and I'd probably understand your position.