Amadeus Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 James Randi - On Geller's Reversal nuff said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hedgehog Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 The only genuine one is Clinton Baptiste http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcMZHbtQqF4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 It's all a pile of baloney and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to take some DMT, that should sort them out. I think that is basically accepted but I am more interested in why these people are still aloud to get away with it as in my opinion it is a blatant con, rip off or fraud. If in any other sphere you tried to do something similar you would be arrested but these guys are not only allowed to peddle this rubbish unimpeeded, the IoM Government actually assists them to put on a show! As I originally said in my work I am required to have procedures to deter money launderers, fraudsters etc and if I do not there are large fines, potential criminal proceedings and closure of my business by a government who in my opinion are on a different situation perfectly happy to let another type of fraud proceed. We have an OFT and trading standings bodies trying to prevent people get rip off whilst another in my view assist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I think that is basically accepted but I am more interested in why these people are still aloud to get away with it as in my opinion it is a blatant con, rip off or fraud. If in any other sphere you tried to do something similar you would be arrested but these guys are not only allowed to peddle this rubbish unimpeeded, the IoM Government actually assists them to put on a show! As I originally said in my work I am required to have procedures to deter money launderers, fraudsters etc and if I do not there are large fines, potential criminal proceedings and closure of my business by a government who in my opinion are on a different situation perfectly happy to let another type of fraud proceed. We have an OFT and trading standings bodies trying to prevent people get rip off whilst another in my view assist. Yes but as someone said it's a bit like religion, you may think it's all bollocks and a con, but others don't. You can't prove it's a con because it deals with a 'supernatural' power, much like you can't prove god doesn't exist. You can't get much more government sponsored than the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 Yes but as someone said it's a bit like religion, you may think it's all bollocks and a con, but others don't. You can't prove it's a con because it deals with a 'supernatural' power, much like you can't prove god doesn't exist. You can't get much more government sponsored than the church. Religion is based on belief and that in my view that is the essence of religion, belief. You can also practice religion without it costing you anything. Whether you can prove or disprove a belief I am not sure. I would also contend that those who teach religion or who are religious leaders in the main case actually believe Psychics, clairvoyants are from my view completely different, they actually know they are not predicting the future, speaking to those who have passed away etc but still pretend they are and charge for this service. i.e. they actually know are deceiving their “clients” and aim to make money from that deceit. I would also say that you can prove that it is a con, or at least not one psychic or clairvoyant has been able to demonstrate their powers under controlled circumstances. I would point out that I write the above as a non believer with regard to religion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 i.e. they actually know are deceiving their “clients” and aim to make money from that deceit. Not much different from passing the collection plate around at the end of service then is it? Unless of course weight of numbers adds credibility! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazir Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 i.e. they actually know are deceiving their “clients” and aim to make money from that deceit. Isn't it better that way. Surely it's the ones that thing their hocuspocus is real that are the ones to watch? Surely thinking that one has some influence over the souls of their congregation is far more worrying than a good oldfashioned snakeoil salesman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 Isn't it better that way. Surely it's the ones that thing their hocuspocus is real that are the ones to watch? Surely thinking that one has some influence over the souls of their congregation is far more worrying than a good oldfashioned snakeoil salesman? Fine, allow good old fashioned snake oil salesman, welcome money laundering & fraudsters to the Island. My beef is that the Govt are allegedly really tight on money laundering, fraudsters, etc on one hand but welcoming them in another guise on the other. Generally I am anti both, and I am certain world wide religion does more harm, but whilst you can not stop beliefs and religeon surely you can stop obvious con men and fraudsters rather than promote them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Jeez its a bit of entertainment...lighten up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 How do you know that they don't believe they are talking to ghosts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Isn't it better that way. Surely it's the ones that thing their hocuspocus is real that are the ones to watch? Surely thinking that one has some influence over the souls of their congregation is far more worrying than a good oldfashioned snakeoil salesman? Fine, allow good old fashioned snake oil salesman, welcome money laundering & fraudsters to the Island. My beef is that the Govt are allegedly really tight on money laundering, fraudsters, etc on one hand but welcoming them in another guise on the other. Generally I am anti both, and I am certain world wide religion does more harm, but whilst you can not stop beliefs and religeon surely you can stop obvious con men and fraudsters rather than promote them. Can it be proved that they are conning people and that their psychic powers are rubbish? Well yes...but not unless every single psychic is willing to undertake scientific studies. Besides, do you honestly believe that all clergyman and members of the church really believe everything that is in the Bible, everything? The people they read fortunes for or apparently talk to relatives for leave feeling glad they went, in the main. It is what they pay for. But it is all bullshit I admit. I think religion and related silly ideas about souls and spirits leads to the thinking that people CAN talk the dead. Maybe it is the ideas created by religion that play a large part in why people think this sort of thing is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Religion is based on belief and that in my view that is the essence of religion, belief. You can also practice religion without it costing you anything. Whether you can prove or disprove a belief I am not sure. I would also contend that those who teach religion or who are religious leaders in the main case actually believe Psychics, clairvoyants are from my view completely different, they actually know they are not predicting the future, speaking to those who have passed away etc but still pretend they are and charge for this service. i.e. they actually know are deceiving their “clients” and aim to make money from that deceit. I would also say that you can prove that it is a con, or at least not one psychic or clairvoyant has been able to demonstrate their powers under controlled circumstances. I would point out that I write the above as a non believer with regard to religion I don't see the distinction. Both Psychics and Religious personnel claim to act as intermediaries between lay people and a supernatural entity. The existence of that entity cannot be proven, whether it's God, or Jehovah, or the spirit of Auntie Ada. Belief in the part of the intermediary is irrelevant. If people choose to beleive in these entities and the powers of certain individuals to contact them, is that not their choice? Since the existence of these supernatural beings cannot be proven either way at the moment, on what evidence would a charge of fraud stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 If people choose to beleive in these entities and the powers of certain individuals to contact them, is that not their choice? What are your thoughts on the point I mentioned, in respect of the fact that the ability of spirits and souls takes advantage of people's ideas of their individual 'essence' as developed from religious belief? Is religion partly to blame for making it possible for these charlatans to do their work? Obviously the history of divination goes farther back than Christianity but if we didn't have infantile beliefs in souls and the spiritual I don't think it is credible to believe such people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaman Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 If people choose to beleive in these entities and the powers of certain individuals to contact them, is that not their choice? What are your thoughts on the point I mentioned, in respect of the fact that the ability of spirits and souls takes advantage of people's ideas of their individual 'essence' as developed from religious belief? Is religion partly to blame for making it possible for these charlatans to do their work? Obviously the history of divination goes farther back than Christianity but if we didn't have infantile beliefs in souls and the spiritual I don't think it is credible to believe such people. My mum goes regularly to her Pikeyripoffmerchant Clairvoyant to speak to her Mum, Dad, Gran and Da and she thoroughly enjoys it. Each to there own on this one me thinks. Next you'll be telling me some strange bloke created the world in 6 days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 What are your thoughts on the point I mentioned, in respect of the fact that the ability of spirits and souls takes advantage of people's ideas of their individual 'essence' as developed from religious belief? Is religion partly to blame for making it possible for these charlatans to do their work? Obviously the history of divination goes farther back than Christianity but if we didn't have infantile beliefs in souls and the spiritual I don't think it is credible to believe such people. Yeah, I suppose the very idea of the existence of the soul and its survival after death which Psychics take advantage of is part of almost every religion and as such is part of human culture. It Britain it usually stems from Christian belief, and although many people now reject the Christian belief system, the idea of a soul and an afterlife lingers on. Perhaps this shows that this is a very deep human trait - the need for the comfort in a life beyond death. Organised religions in some ways take advantage of this deep human need themselves. They are not to blame for the idea, but they do propogate it, and prosper from it, but it existed before organised religion. Edit: I've actually been to see Joe Power at the Centenary Centre a few year so. I was totally incredulous, but the person who I went with had an open mind about it all. By the end we could hardly stifle our laughter, and the poor earnest people sitting around us were giving us evil looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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