pongo Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 As soon as the words are said there's a whole load of procedures that they have to go through Not commenting on this specifically but, in general, security needs to be able to apply judgement and analysis of a situation rather than working only to procedures. Only working to procedures is dangerous because something which has not been factored into the procedure will ultimately pose a genuine risk. Has to be remembered that the ultimate goal of security is to make flying safer. Nothing else. It is not about exercising control. http://www.ne.anl.gov/capabilities/vat/seals/maxims.html The Book Maxim: Full compliance with security rules and regulations is not compatible with optimal security. Comment: Because security rules & regulations are typically dumb and unrealistic (at least partially). Moreover, they often lead to over-confidence, waste time and resources, create unhelpful distractions, engender cynicism about security, and encourage employees to find workarounds to get their job done—thus making security an “us vs. them” game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I gotta go against the flow with this one. I agree that Bin Laden probably doesn't have a UK hideout however the Shoe Bomber did as did those guys with the exploding sports drinks. UK aviation security is there to protect us all and acting like a dickhead at an airport isn't clever. Yeah. UK aviation security is - but have you been through this airport lately its well above the UK average? They do what the IoM Government does best - petty mindedness and burocracy overload. It is without doubt one of the worst airports in the UK to use because it goes out of its way to inconvienience the traveller with pure arsey-ness because it can. I have lots of business clients who travel between London / Jersey / Guernsey who dread coming here because they feel that the security staff go out of the way to be a pain in the arse just because they can. They say that they have never seen such over zealous processes and procedures in any other offshore airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 WTF would he want to come back here for? To reclaim his sandals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manin42 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 We should all be concerned about this whole affair Anti terrorism Laws are there to be used as the last resort Not to sentence people to a jail sentence ( Even if it is suspended )for an probably off the cuff remark and then to additionaly impose an exclusion order as well is extreme I thought that the danger threshholds had been reduced to fairly low at the moment this is an Example of Judges in Englad Wales and the Isle oF Man useing Jail as the First Tool they use in there Sentencing policy The Mention of Terrorism seems to allow the State to terrorise its Subjects for being in the Prosecuters Rosemary Burnetts words " Bolshy" This was a 62 year old man A retired bulding Surveyor who in the Courier report travelled all over the world we will soon need our old Prison to hold more in mates We dont jail more people than any other part of western europe for nothing ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Seriously: It goes to show that employing intellectually challenged cretins still han't been affected by the global recession in the IOM.I expect the only previous taste of power most of them have had was taking the family dog for a walk and even then they were the stupidest of the two involved in the process. I gotta go against the flow with this one. I agree that Bin Laden probably doesn't have a UK hideout however the Shoe Bomber did as did those guys with the exploding sports drinks. UK aviation security is there to protect us all and acting like a dickhead at an airport isn't clever. It would just be nice if those police force rejects and mini hitlers would use some common sense in situations like this, instead of wasting taxpayers money while on their little power trip. He gets stopped, procedure, procedure, police comes, guy locked up, court time, police time, etc. Some wannabe SS officers' headrush just cost the IOM taxpayer a fair whack & gave a tourist a criminal record, when a little stern warning would have sufficed. Well done folks, great job. Pay peanuts, get monkeys... Strange also that ronaldsway security seems to be more strict than when I came back through manchester recently - no shoes taken off, no nazi style procedures - just quick & efficient security. The sad thing is: Neither airport nor sea terminal security would spot a terrorist if he wore a fucking name badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I just wonder, they must have felt pretty certain that what happened was a criminal offence and was prosecutable or they would not have detained and called the police. How does that situation arise? If you understand what I am getting at, what sort environment and thinking has been created where such reporting to the belief is considered normal. And I wouldn't just have a go at the guards. What of the police who faciliated the man being brought to 'justice' and what of this justice system and those who operate within it who handed out the sentence. They are all involved, are they not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 we will soon need our old Prison to hold more in mates Getting very close apparently and if any MHK ventures to ask, then ask about how many spaces are available for the adult wings A and B wing over the last 6 months showing how close that both wings (and not additional space elsewhere in the jail) were full, if need be on a daily basis. There may be it seems, a need to expand soon, but I'd suppose that it might embarrass a few people if the place was full after spending an enormous amount of money on it and the question should probably be, do they expand or do they reduce the numbers of prisoners by only imprisoning people who are a risk to society? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 The sad thing is: Neither airport nor sea terminal security would spot a terrorist if he wore a fucking name badge. Seconded. The whole process is just overload. Having said that I doubt even name badges would be spotted with some of these minimum wage Hitlers. I know of someone years a go who went through Orlando Airport and where it said 'Purposes of visit' wrote 'to kill George Bush'. They never even questioned it as they never read the card. Its a pretty high risk strategy though!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 That over zealous behaviour promotes the illusion of security without enhancing it, and displays the worst kind of incompetent, egotistical power. In the past year I've twice been on flights from the IOM where I've not had to show any ID at any point. I checked in on-line printed off the ticket and had the security storm-troopers check diligently my laptop and toothpaste, make me walk barefoot on that filthy carpet but failed epically to confirm that I was the person to whom the ticket had been issued. Page 1, paragraph 1 of the security manual. The ticket could have been lost, stolen or given to someone else who could have ulterior motives and no-one would have checked their identity. If it happened to me twice how many others has it happened to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 As soon as the words are said there's a whole load of procedures that they have to go through Not commenting on this specifically but, in general, security needs to be able to apply judgement and analysis of a situation rather than working only to procedures. Only working to procedures is dangerous because something which has not been factored into the procedure will ultimately pose a genuine risk. OK, I should have said a whole load of procedures "and other stuff". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
%age Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I just wonder, they must have felt pretty certain that what happened was a criminal offence and was prosecutable or they would not have detained and called the police. How does that situation arise? If you understand what I am getting at, what sort environment and thinking has been created where such reporting to the belief is considered normal. And I wouldn't just have a go at the guards. What of the police who faciliated the man being brought to 'justice' and what of this justice system and those who operate within it who handed out the sentence. They are all involved, are they not? I have LDV on ignore but read this post. I have to agree. This whole affair pretty well sums up the Isle of Man justice system. The UK National papers will enjoy this. What is the Isle of Man coming to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Weird how my post was not quoted yet it could still be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
%age Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 My forum visits had become so much less stressful and full of irritation since putting you "on ignore" LDV. No offence meant, but rather than enter into discussion with you I found it so much easier to just remove your posts. This thread I am interested in and not unreasonably I decided to use a single click of the mouse button to see how you were going to foul up this thread. I was surprised to find that what you had said was, for once, not complete and utter shite and was actually contributed a reasonable opinion. Here's a screen shot for your reference. Edited to add: 4,569 posts. 1 good one. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 He would have gotten off easier had he punched the guy: Attack was 'relentless', court told A man has been given a suspended jail sentence after carrying out what police described as a 'sustained and relentless attack'. Twenty-six-year-old Cesar Maia admitted an offence of affray on Central Promenade, Douglas at 3.30am on August 1. The court head Maia, of Castlemona Avenue, punched a man who had pushed his brother. His advocate told High Bailiff Michael Moyle he had been provoked, and had a good work record and no previous convictions. Maia was given a two months prison sentence, suspended for a year. Make a (ill timed) joke: four months, suspended for two years & £500 quid fine. Punch someones lights out in a 'sustained and relentless attack': 2 months, suspended for a year, no fine. Something's not quite right here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Another absolutely OTT security reaction. Agree a local bollocking, stern maybe, would have sufficed. My elderly ill mother got practically strip searched at Liverpool (IOM/Liverpool and back trip) recently - inside bra/knickers job - while two turkish guys just walked through, and sat laughing when she complained to her travelling companion afterwards and was talking to them. Why? procedural quotas no doubt. The whole travel security industry (for that is what it is) is driven by procedures and operated by people with high Unintelligence Quotas, and sod all commonsense. All driven by a government that sticks it's beak where it doesn't belong all the time, robs oil and other natural resources, sells them arms and then goes to war with them, and then wonders why people abroad get pissed off with them!!! - with these stupid resulting security regulations all happily 'copied, pasted, rubber stamped and applied' by the bulk of idiots we have in Tynwald. MHKs should be asking serious questions about how this incident was treated and escalated. It's like living in eastern europe in the 60s/70s. Little wonder people get totally hacked off with it all occasionally and these thicko jobsworths - and they should understand that a little more and deal with it appropriately, not like this. I wouldn't fly anymore if you paid me. If not just the OTT security bollocks here - it's the rip-off prices and flight number 50:50 on flymaybe to contend with too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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