The Lord Street Old Bus Station Site Saga Continues

[Vulgarian]

I think someone else brought this point up earlier on in the thread, and that is whether it is the government's responsibility to provide leisure and entertainment facilities for its citizens. Do we want a government run ice rink? We already have, ludicrously to my mind, two government run theatres which bleed money, and which people seem to do nothing but complain about. I can only begin to imagine how the poor management and disregard for public money that are the hallmarks of government would transfer to the setting of a giant indoor ice rink, or a "megaplex".

 

But then with all the taxes we pay people expect something back. I think that with the 'big government' system that we have, and the amount of taxes we pay, the state ought to be providing something for the enjoyment and fulfillment of its people. They already control healthcare, education, security, transport, and justice, and reach far beyond what it necessary to the practical running of a country, so it seems odd that they should not be concerned with the emotional wellbeing of the people.

[Slim]

Don't know what the answer is. Well I do, we need a roller skating rink, or some other exciting activity venue, that is not structured to be leading to a competition, except with your mates, where they can then have a soft drink after their session, mosey down to be collected by their parent, who will ask if they had a good night, not if they performed well in their roller skating session.

 

The emphasis is too much on competitive sport, and not about leisure.

 

It's a bit 'use it or lose it' though. We've had roller skating and bowling here, and the reality is the numbers just aren't there to support them long term.

[VinnieK]

They already control healthcare, education, security, transport, and justice, and reach far beyond what it necessary to the practical running of a country, so it seems odd that they should not be concerned with the emotional wellbeing of the people.

 

I'd say that there is some reasoning behind the provision of healthcare, education, security, transport, and justice. There may be some disagreement with regards to how involved the private sector should be in some of these, and what's the best method of provision, but essentially there is a case for government involvement (partial or full, direct or indirect) in all of these areas. However, the one area I would have thought that people could sort things out for themselves, more or less in its entirity and with an absolute minimum of state involvement (although as you say, the government is involved in running theatres, and also in providing and maintaining public parks), is keeping themselves occupied. Much more and I feel the state will be effectively infantalizing people, indulging and pandering to their whims to such an extent that we end up with a populace of fickle mush-heads with little idea of how to do things for themselves.

 

To be honest, if kids and people find themselves bored and with nothing to do, it's only because we're relatively lucky to be living in a society that affords its inhabitants an awful lot of leisure time compared with other parts of the world and previous generations. As such, it seems a little spoilt to then cry out for help filling that time. Today we have access to virtually every book that has ever been written, every piece of music or film that's been recorded. We have the chance and the opportunity to take up a musical instrument, cultivate hobbies of our choosing, study any discipline, or choose from a bewildering variety of sports to partake in. We can be entertained in front of the television, in the playing field, sat at a computer or console, in a theatre or cinema, or relax with friends in a café, pub, restaurant, park, or on the beach. In short, we live in an age of unprecedented opportunities to be entertained and indulge our enthusiasms and interests. And yet we cry out for more, dismissing everything that we have and assuming that it's someone else's responsibility to provide us with yet more activities, novelties and fripperies. What does it say about us if, given all that we have, our boredom is so servere and our enthusiasm and imagination so limited that we desperately need X establishment to briefly lift our jaded spirits now and again?

 

Sure, kids will still be bored. Kids generally do spend a lot of time bored, especially those who are at that awkward age when they're neither child nor adult, but that's life and they should be encouraged to make the most of their time, just like everyone else had to when they were that age.

[Jimcalagon]

It's a bit 'use it or lose it' though. We've had roller skating and bowling here, and the reality is the numbers just aren't there to support them long term.

 

I don't know about the roller skating but every time I went to the bowling at the castle Mona it was packed out. Even the manky upstairs with the sticky carpets.

 

[edit for spelling]

Edited October 9, 2009 by Jimcalagon

[Gladys]

Yep, the problem with the Castle Mona was not the bowling which was well supported and lost when the hotel was sold and closed.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Don't know what the answer is. Well I do, we need a roller skating rink, or some other exciting activity venue, that is not structured to be leading to a competition, except with your mates, where they can then have a soft drink after their session, mosey down to be collected by their parent, who will ask if they had a good night, not if they performed well in their roller skating session.

 

The emphasis is too much on competitive sport, and not about leisure.

 

It's a bit 'use it or lose it' though. We've had roller skating and bowling here, and the reality is the numbers just aren't there to support them long term.

I am not arguing either way in terms of what the Island should get. But how long could rollerskating go on for, aside from the fact that the closure came with the end of Summerland? I know it is the Isle of Man, but at some point people on the Island would have been made aware of how 1970s it is to skate around sober. Even though it was fun in my mid-teens.

As for bowling, I thought that ended with the company getting into financial trouble. Was it not that popular then?

 

I think for starters, a new cinema. And a decent nightclub. Can't think of anything else though.

[bluemonday]

I'd say that there is some reasoning behind the provision of healthcare, education, security, transport, and justice. There may be some disagreement with regards to how involved the private sector should be in some of these, and what's the best method of provision, but essentially there is a case for government involvement (partial or full, direct or indirect) in all of these areas. However, the one area I would have thought that people could sort things out for themselves, more or less in its entirity and with an absolute minimum of state involvement (although as you say, the government is involved in running theatres, and also in providing and maintaining public parks), is keeping themselves occupied. Much more and I feel the state will be effectively infantalizing people, indulging and pandering to their whims to such an extent that we end up with a populace of fickle mush-heads with little idea of how to do things for themselves.

 

To be honest, if kids and people find themselves bored and with nothing to do, it's only because we're relatively lucky to be living in a society that affords its inhabitants an awful lot of leisure time compared with other parts of the world and previous generations. As such, it seems a little spoilt to then cry out for help filling that time. Today we have access to virtually every book that has ever been written, every piece of music or film that's been recorded. We have the chance and the opportunity to take up a musical instrument, cultivate hobbies of our choosing, study any discipline, or choose from a bewildering variety of sports to partake in. We can be entertained in front of the television, in the playing field, sat at a computer or console, in a theatre or cinema, or relax with friends in a café, pub, restaurant, park, or on the beach. In short, we live in an age of unprecedented opportunities to be entertained and indulge our enthusiasms and interests. And yet we cry out for more, dismissing everything that we have and assuming that it's someone else's responsibility to provide us with yet more activities, novelties and fripperies. What does it say about us if, given all that we have, our boredom is so servere and our enthusiasm and imagination so limited that we desperately need X establishment to briefly lift our jaded spirits now and again?

 

Sure, kids will still be bored. Kids generally do spend a lot of time bored, especially those who are at that awkward age when they're neither child nor adult, but that's life and they should be encouraged to make the most of their time, just like everyone else had to when they were that age.

 

Superb post.

 

We're all becoming ultimate consumers.

We want everything and when we get it, it's not enough.

 

In having everything, we have nothing.

[VinnieK]

We're all becoming ultimate consumers.

We want everything and when we get it, it's not enough.

 

That we are, but in all honestly I think it's even deeper than that. Consumerism I can deal with: at the very worst it's a bit vulgar and superficial, but I feel we're becoming more than that. Specifically, people are actually becoming more childish through being pandered to and having little to no real responsibilities until relatively late in life - a kind of behavioural neoteny, whereby domesticated animals live in some foggy extended juvenile stage, but for humans.

 

I don't know how coloured my own personal view is, but a fair few late adolescents today seem to have the same kind of attitudes, expectations, demands, and limitations that I remember being closer to those of children in their early to mid teens, and a similar kind of arrested development is evident in a lot of adults too. In a sense this is already well documented. Going back a couple of years I can remember people talking about the rise of the 'man child' - emotionally stunted creatures who don't truly experience adulthood until their mid-thirties, and when they do it takes the form of some kind of mild personal crisis similar to that more commonly associated with middle age.. But I wonder whether it doesn't have a darker side as well. For instance, take the claimed increase in antisocial behaviour, violence, and irresponsibility in society and compare the same behaviour to what you'd expect from a bunch of spoilt children who've been given access to booze and the strength of adults. Obviously, I'm not claiming that laser quest causes street violence (although it is shit, don't get me wrong), but I can't help but wonder if the society we've created, one that attempts to cater to and endlessly indulge its populace and their whims and in which there's little motivation to think for yourself or even grow up doesn't provide an often unacknowledged contribution to current social problems.

[Albert Tatlock]

We live in a land where children are afforded the rights of adults, and adults are treated as children. What else do you expect?

[Gladys]

Vinnie K has posted excellent posts, but has missed the point. I want to see my children being useful, responsible members of society. To do that, I must relinquish control (not responsibility) but I can only do that if I can watch them through the transition from familial control to self-responsibility. So far, we really do not have the platform for that on the island.

[wazir]

Vinnie K has posted excellent posts, but has missed the point. I want to see my children being useful, responsible members of society. To do that, I must relinquish control (not responsibility) but I can only do that if I can watch them through the transition from familial control to self-responsibility. So far, we really do not have the platform for that on the island.

I often find with your posts I completely agree but then by the time I get to the end I forget what it was I agreed with. Probably this Mediterrean weather. And the Vino Collapso.

[VinnieK]

Vinnie K has posted excellent posts, but has missed the point. I want to see my children being useful, responsible members of society. To do that, I must relinquish control (not responsibility) but I can only do that if I can watch them through the transition from familial control to self-responsibility. So far, we really do not have the platform for that on the island.

 

Nah, I just went off, as I do, on a bit of a tangent. Still, I do wonder how crucial this platform you mention is, and how effective something like a roller rink or bowling alley would actually be at providing it. You've already mentioned that there are weekly youth clubs available, and presumably there are things like after school clubs, occasional nights out at the cinema with friends and so forth, how many evenings hanging out with friends do kids really need before they get their well rounded individual badge?

[pongo]

It is a pity that the old bus station was ever dropped. It was a stylish building in the 1930s municipal style and there is a shortage of interesting architecture on the IOM.

 

An imaginative council / govt would have done something good with it.

[Albert Tatlock]

It is a pity that the old bus station was ever dropped. It was a stylish building in the 1930s municipal style and there is a shortage of interesting architecture on the IOM.

 

An imaginative council / govt would have done something good with it.

Yes indeed, and served as a bit of a focal point too. The bus station and all around that area could have become quite a nice 'town centre' if it had all been handled right IMO.

 

Douglas doesn't seem to have a town centre anymore. Towns need central focal points IMO, otherwise they just become collections of meandering streets with no focus. When I was a kid I always thought of the town centre as Victoria Street, the Town Hall and around the Bus Station, and going to town - was heading to Strand Street. Makes you think did we ever really have a town centre anymore anyway after the market moved into Strand Street?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

What should we do? I think the cheapest method to give Douglas some focus is to erect a monument somewhere that could be deemed the centre of Douglas. I don't know what sort of monument it should be though.