La_Dolce_Vita Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 LDV, Why don't we look at it correctly, it matters not what any so called experts in political correctness say, you cannot force a person how to think, you have to accept some people and in cases religions/races find homosexuality repulsive unatural and against nature, it is not your position to tell others how to think, you need to accept the right of every man to think how he wishes. Now consider what I just said, if you call a person homophobic because the believe homosexuality is wrong due to their national/religious beliefs, doesn't that make you racist towards them also due to the fact you will not accept their views due to them being based on their racial upbringing I don't know why you are talking about political correctness. I only commented on EvilGoblin's use of the term because in using it in reference to the comments of other posters and my own comments it shows he doesn't know what it means. This whole discussion has nothing to do with political correctness. Political correctness is simply a guide to the use of language. Rather than using terms or words which are harmful, damaging, and oppressive there is an encouragement for people to adopt new terms that are benign. And such changes in languages do change people's thinking to a degree. It has nothing to do with forcing people to change their thinking. A lot of people do find homosexuality (or more particularly and more commonly, sodomy) repulsive. I recognise that and I accept that is how people think. I can't force people to change their thinking. But anyone can try and inform the ignorant or challenge their beliefs, beliefs that deserve no respect given that they are built up upon ignorance and prejudice. Let's not talk about silly rights. I do have very goods cause and am completely justified in condemning those who are homophobic. As do all people who are appalled by homophobia, sexism, racism, 'ableist' prejudice, etc. I think you are mistaken in your use of the word race. I think what you are getting at is the issue of the beliefs in other cultures. There are two issues here. One is that by identifying homophobia in another culture, you are simply stating a fact about the cultural beliefs. If they think it is wrong then they are admittedly homophobic. However, there is nothing wrong in condemning those cultural beliefs that support homophobia. In some countries they cut off girls clitorises, that is part of their culture. Of course we should condemn that. To call it racist is to misunderstand racism and the reasons for why it should be condemned. It is the same with homophobia. Anyway, you have got me ranting about something that has nothing to do with this thread. This isn't about political correctness. I just really object to the foolish arguments that political correctness is some attack upon people's freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I must say the backlash is going a bit far. Certainly, disagee with Moir, express your opposition to her article, complain to the paper, but petition No 10 for her sacking? So as liberals we think that it'd be a good thing that the government were able sack newspaper columnists if enough people disagree with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 LDV - I suggest you get rid of the chip sitting on your shoulder - otherwise you are going to have a lot of trouble understanding many things properly, never mind being able to conduct a rational, reasoned argument. For someone who, I believe, has pretentions to a proper University level of intelligence and intellectual ability, you are currently labouring under a severe handicap. Mind you, you share your "blindness" with some others, including Declan and PK (the latter being so bigotted that the fact that Moir was writing in that well-known Left-Wing branch of the gutter press, the Wail, would be enough to justify blind abuse). Errr.... any chance of a translation into English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 So LDV yoou condem a culture because you don't agree with their methods albiet cruel of keeping their religious beliefs therefor you are not tollerant of them therefore you are discriminating against them which makes you a racist just as anyone who finds homosaxuality offensive in your eyes must be homophobic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Which races find homosexuality repulsive? What, are you not capable of using Google? I can, but I was hoping that I could encourage you into another public display of utter idiocy. Hey go wind your own key up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 So LDV yoou condem a culture because you don't agree with their methods albiet cruel of keeping their religious beliefs therefor you are not tollerant of them therefore you are discriminating against them which makes you a racist just as anyone who finds homosaxuality offensive in your eyes must be homophobicYou don't appear to understand discrimination and racism very well. But I won't ask you how I am being discriminatory. I condemn the aspects of a culture that, for instance, would allow and give sanction to genital mutiliation. Absolutely. I would criticise any cultural beliefs are based upon oppressing others, harming others, curbing freedoms, etc. I have no tolerant for such things, nor should I have. Beliefs should not be simply accepted because people in other country and culture have them. We have as much justification to criticise (when we have good reason) the harmful and oppresive views and beliefs of those in Monrovia, or Madrid, as much as someone here in Manxforums. It has nothing to do with discriminating or being prejudiced on the basis of skin colour, nor discriminating and being prejudiced on the basis that other cultures exist. Look into what prejudice and discrimination means. Anyone who does find homosexuality offensive is homophobic. I am quite surprised that you do not grasp the obvious. If someone find homosexuality (which does not simply mean the act of homosexual act, but includes it) to be offensive they are naturally homophobic. In the same way as someone who finds people of another culture to be inferior or someone who simply dislikes people of another colour would be racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Actually, if you look at the original story on the mail site (they've edited the title)... Mail Link Why has no-one spoken up for the accidental victims in this. The Nolan Sisters must be gutted that an unflattering photo and some bitchy comments about them are attached to the most talked about article of the day. Are all Jan Moir's articles laced with nastiness and spite? I think that by extension most articles in the Mail are laced with nastiness and spite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Which races find homosexuality repulsive? What, are you not capable of using Google? I can, but I was hoping that I could encourage you into another public display of utter idiocy. Hey go wind your own key up But I'm genuinely interested in which race of people it is that you're talking about. You know, the race that can't be forced to think a certain way, but find homosexuality repulsive because their religion/culture forces them to think that way. I'm also curious as to how you have to be a racist to describe this openly admitted homophobia as "homophobia". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Which races find homosexuality repulsive? What, are you not capable of using Google? I can, but I was hoping that I could encourage you into another public display of utter idiocy. Hey go wind your own key up But I'm genuinely interested in which race of people it is that you're talking about. You know, the race that can't be forced to think a certain way, but find homosexuality repulsive because their religion/culture forces them to think that way. I'm also curious as to how you have to be a racist to describe this openly admitted homophobia as "homophobia". I refer to my previous answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 The one that didn't make sense? OK, thanks for explaining to the best of your ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 No I thought I had explained to the lowest of standards, obviously not low enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Well it looks like you're calling LDV a racist because he calls homophobic races homophobic. But that is so muddled-headed it can't be what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Jimbms is just a bit muddled up over some concepts, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Got a tiny bit pissed off when I heard Ronan Keating talking at the funeral... "He was a hero"...Excuse me!!! Say that again..."Hero"!!!! What the fudge did this guy do that was heroic? Save someone from a burning building? Restart someones heart? Stop a mugger? Save his buddy from a burning tank while under heavy enemy fire? No he sang some naff pop songs and was gay. The benchmark for heroism has really dropped in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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