pongo Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 We need to see the numbers and the calculations in order to avoid speculation. I do not see the point of speculation when govt can tell us. And the numbers need to be carefully explained in context. Meanwhile I am almost certain that buying locally produced food where possible helps the local economy. So we know that a ready meal or a frozen burger probably does less for the local economy than buying the ingredients for a meal. On my internal points system I'm currently offsetting my occasional Amazon imports against me being bothered to cook. On the other hand I think that most of us would want to know if how we spend our money can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Yep, if we understood that how, and where, we spend our money so directly affects our future, then we would be a bit more canny. I do agree with supporting local businesses, and that is always my starting point. But, really, a difference of over 100%, would you go for it? Perhaps it is about more and more information so that we do understand the wider implications for the IOM of where we buy. You never know, it may result in local retailers having such an influx of business that they can become more competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Agreed more information needs to be made available to the public on how our spend effects the Island. Unfortunately I'd imagine with the majority of people price is still king, especially in times of recession. ========= As an aside I think the IOM government need to find a way to discuss the situation with the population. It may sound funny but I have spoken to a few people around the Island, who don't read the local paper or listen to Manx Radio and some didn't know about the VAT situation or if they had heard something didn't understand the implications and just said something along the lines of - "well we should just go VAT free". Some people just listen to UK National Radio and watch UK News or get UK papers. Even the Courier which is probably the widest read paper - carried no mention of the £90million reduction whereas the Independent went into it in detail. A lot of people just grab their local news from the free sheet. I'm probably being silly, but I think it's a time when the government should be open about the implications whether the news is good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Not silly at all Slinky. From what I have seen on various levels, there has been a failure to recognise reality and the hard truth that if you get it wrong, it bites you. Begging everyone's pardon, but I think that the IOM has enjoyed growth for 20 (is it ?) years. Fantastic, couldn't be more pleased. Now it is time to grow up and take a little pain, but understand why. Love this place dearly, but the good times haven't really stood us in good stead for the bad times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyrotten Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 It's all very well saying shop local, and TB did say in the keys that it's never been more important to do so. But what difference does my fifty quid a week in Tesco really make when the Government itself is spending millions off-island on major contracts? When asked if he would make it formal policy to buy local for all government departments, TB fudged the answer, and it seems WE have to buy local but HE doesn't. With the curent round of tendering going on now the last vestiges of TT organisation are about to wander off to some London company, the website joining the marketing, promotion and TV, and all that's left now is the income from the video. How long before Duke loses that and it's all gone? Supposedly the most readily-identifiable piece of Manxness around the world, and under the guidance of DTL clowns we are now paying for every aspect of it to be handled off-island. And Tony Brown wants ME to shop local in order to save the economy? No wonder they don't take us seriously in London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyw Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 Thanks for the comments - it's clear that what the Manx public need access to is the facts behind the VAT sharing agreement. According to the press, this is still secret! I think we all need to press our MHK's to persuade the Treasury to be a bit more open with us about this agreement which is likely going to cost us dearly in the coming years. In the meantime, shop local and buy Manx is my mantra! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeky boy Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Tesco, B&Q, M&S, Next, Boots, etc etc employ a lot of local people directly and indirectly who would otherwise be unemployed. Your MHK is an idiot. Not strictly true, before B&Q etc came here people worked for local businesses like Quiggins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punisher Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Tony Brown spends £90 Million per year on stick on moustaches; perhaps he could be persuaded to grow a real one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I know this has been done to death elsewhere but to shop local there has to be something to make it attractive to the consumer and price and choice certainly are not it ! TB is an idiot, chanting a mantra which will have little or no effect on a huge hole. this administration are the weakest I have seen whilst living here for a long time and they are finally found out ! Good governance cannot be measured by the amount of shiny new things we own, good governance should have been running unnoticed in the background. rant over LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wake Up Call Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 It's all very well saying shop local, and TB did say in the keys that it's never been more important to do so. But what difference does my fifty quid a week in Tesco really make when the Government itself is spending millions off-island on major contracts? When asked if he would make it formal policy to buy local for all government departments, TB fudged the answer, and it seems WE have to buy local but HE doesn't. With the curent round of tendering going on now the last vestiges of TT organisation are about to wander off to some London company, the website joining the marketing, promotion and TV, and all that's left now is the income from the video. How long before Duke loses that and it's all gone? Supposedly the most readily-identifiable piece of Manxness around the world, and under the guidance of DTL clowns we are now paying for every aspect of it to be handled off-island. And Tony Brown wants ME to shop local in order to save the economy? No wonder they don't take us seriously in London. This problem is much bigger than choosing one shop over another. We need the big stores here to attract wealthy residents and other commerce, even then, we would have to attract a few thousand millionaires here to get a sniff of bailing us out of this mess that OUR GOVERNMENT failed to plan for. We need to get clever with our finance sector - it is the only way. I don't think the TT can do a great deal here, how many of us travel away from these shores and find that the majority of people you come across have NEVER heard of the races? Ask the same question about Mark Cavendish and his is more well known. I know for a fact that 2 years ago, a Minister was advised to consider investing in branding Cav for the IOM. (It didn't register!) He is going to go into hyper stardom in years to come and on a par with many World stars. Missed opportunity eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 It's all very well saying shop local, and TB did say in the keys that it's never been more important to do so. But what difference does my fifty quid a week in Tesco really make when the Government itself is spending millions off-island on major contracts? When asked if he would make it formal policy to buy local for all government departments, TB fudged the answer, and it seems WE have to buy local but HE doesn't. With the curent round of tendering going on now the last vestiges of TT organisation are about to wander off to some London company, the website joining the marketing, promotion and TV, and all that's left now is the income from the video. How long before Duke loses that and it's all gone? Supposedly the most readily-identifiable piece of Manxness around the world, and under the guidance of DTL clowns we are now paying for every aspect of it to be handled off-island. And Tony Brown wants ME to shop local in order to save the economy? No wonder they don't take us seriously in London. This problem is much bigger than choosing one shop over another. We need the big stores here to attract wealthy residents and other commerce, even then, we would have to attract a few thousand millionaires here to get a sniff of bailing us out of this mess that OUR GOVERNMENT failed to plan for. We need to get clever with our finance sector - it is the only way. I don't think the TT can do a great deal here, how many of us travel away from these shores and find that the majority of people you come across have NEVER heard of the races? Ask the same question about Mark Cavendish and his is more well known. I know for a fact that 2 years ago, a Minister was advised to consider investing in branding Cav for the IOM. (It didn't register!) He is going to go into hyper stardom in years to come and on a par with many World stars. Missed opportunity eh? Definitely. One of the biggest sporting stars in Europe and we fail to recognise this here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 it's clear that what the Manx public need access to is the facts behind the VAT sharing agreement. According to the press, this is still secret! I think we all need to press our MHK's to persuade the Treasury to be a bit more open with us about this agreement which is likely going to cost us dearly in the coming years. In the meantime, shop local and buy Manx is my mantra! Do the Treasury know how much VAT is collected from locally owned businesses out of the total amount raised here? Does anyone know what happens in relation to the Excise duties on beer, wine, spirits and other alcoholic drinks, hydrocarbon oils (including fuel and petrol), cigarettes and tobacco sold here? Is this passed through to the UK and an amount recouped or is it raised by the UK Customs & Excise before items come here or is it raised and retained in full here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThankU Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Remember this http://www.manxforums.com/forums/lofiversi....php?t9953.html And now they are going to allow a UK Construction firm to complete this for AH and the IOM Gov. No sign of buy local here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Agree with buying local produce, where it's available. How does not shopping at M&S, B&Q, and Tesco help?Local companies (barring banks and property companies) don't pay tax, and even foreign companies' turnover is included in GDP for VAT purposes. That's not correct Sebrof, the calculation for VAT is GNP, not GDP, see: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/c...355/355we06.htm I'm still not sure how you'd know if the likes of Tesco are included in our VAT receipts, how can you be so sure? I like the summary to the above review: "The Customs and Excise Agreement between the Isle of Man and the United Kingdom is a long standing agreement, which has both stood the test of time and shown itself to be flexible to amendment, upon joint agreement between the two Governments, to respond to changing economic circumstances." Apparently alchohol duty isn't pooled, so we should all just live off manx spirit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Treasury should have the figures number of points M&S is locally incorporated. I think Tesco is as well, not sure about B&Q but locationm of head office is not relevant zero rate tax is not the question or problem because you have to distribute a certain percentage anyway for the balance to be zero rated so the person or entity which gets the dividend pays tax at 18% You have to think about the benefits of N.I., income tax and employment VAT is not that simple either If it is the UK entity here then it will be registered for VAT in UK, that is where it will submit its returns and claimm back its inputs and pay its VAT. You cannot have two VAT registrations If it is manx registered then two popsibilities arise a. there is a group VAT registrtaion same as above. This still allows for billing from parent to subsidiary and build up of profits here at lower tax rate which may be next area for FATF and OECD and EU to consider harmful,or b. separate VAT registration The Customs and Excise Agreement, not common purse, collects iVAT and Customs and duties n the two areas, IOM and UK and notionally pools centrally and then divides based on GDP. The IOM sales will be included in the IOM and gross total as will all sales in IOM and UK, so we get a fair share accoprding tothe formula in place. Likewise if you buy over the internet in UK, we get a share based on GDP. Recent negotiations changed that share because UK thought it was too high, they changed it last two years ago and we could not believe our luck. In the past some may remember the deccennial test. The then formulae was per head, plus an addition to represent additional spending in IOM by tourists plusamn alowance recalculated every 10 yeras and applied as an adjustment for the next ten yeras based on how much dutiablel and vatable purchases manx residents had made in the UK, The real issuehere is the attitude of HMG Westminster. We have reserves' we could run a deficit for a few years and issue Manx Giovernment stock, but the whole attitude of UK is now that we must stand on own two feet. that is so if its tax, banking compensation and health. So lets do it. Lets examine all the options. As is being bullied and dictated to by Westmisnter, a County of England, much same and lose all or benefits, a County of Scotland, same as with England but Holyrood bullying us. Indepenc debnt in UN but no trade v block (and there we would lose the Customs agreement and the income from duties oand VAT paid on goods brought in via UK or odered over internet. Don't think there will be a VAT and duty free shoping option for IOM residents) The final option is independence, in UN, in EU, still keeping a tax sharing agreement with UK, and with the EU as well, fully in the market so we can sell opuer finanmcial products to 600 million on our doorstep instead of te 60 million at present. Sure we woud have red tape, we have it now. As a region, culture at risk and liguistic minority we would get funding. Sure we will not qualify for a Commisioner or even one set in te European parlaiment, no doubt share one of the Northe West ones or make o up one for Gib, Jer, Guer and IOM Defence we could stop paying, health we would qualify for EHIC and IOM gvernment could still cover for non emergency treatment in UK or EU on top. For elective we could go anywhere in EU and pay. Diplomatic rep we do a deal with another country for consular services based on actual use. Currency we get the Euro. Yes lots wrong with EU and its lack of democracy at the toop, but we can fight that, will we be bullied, well if we are it won;t be by the UK. WE will have a level playing field re market access. Our one downside is we lose work permits, actually personally I do not think they work, but we can have some form of population control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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