Postal Strikes - Adam Crozier

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Sorry Pongo, I assumed you were correcting me on something, I just wondered what you meant.

 

I have to say that although my politics are anarchist I don't know what the best options should be. I don't know whether the best method is to challenge government (on the basis of its existence) under the idea that the liberal democratic governments make possible for such awful economic systems and business power structures to exist, or whether government should be strengthened and push to its very limits in certain areas while attempts are made to challenge capitalist practices and then let the state wither or do away with it. Many would argue that the latter is not anarchism.

 

Anyway...in the short term, the only hope to avert future crises would be tighten up regulations as much as is possible. This would be in our interest, however, it is not in the elites who have power. But government is the only power base with which there is any hope for possible reform, even though popular interests are difficult to express and more often sidelined.

 

I have to say, it is a shame that the reason for financial crises and discussions of it have been completely sidelined in the media. Rather than have people look at the causes and try and understand things, the media have focused heavily on such relatively trivial matters as bonuses and the workings of the banks (as if they were solely responsible) when it was actually the whole finance industry and how it operates.

[Rog]

The Director makes responsible decisions, but there is little cost to him and making incorrect decisions. It is not a personal responsibility that engenders serious costs for the person involved.

 

Not many it isn’t!

 

When you’ve got a bonus linked to performance the costs to you can be astronomical if you get it wrong.

 

With a 60 million dollar contract the “on-time and in-budget with a happy client” bonus running typically at 2,5% of contract price will rapidly decreasing to zero when a number of things don’t meet requirements.

 

And very often the bonus is paid partly in cash and partly in stock options as further motivation to do it right as stock options can not be claimed typically for three years from date of grant.

 

Been there, done it, got the Tee shirts.

[scarbunny]

I thought this thread was about the postal strikes, not another rant on how capitalism is crap and the banks are evil?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

When you’ve got a bonus linked to performance the costs to you can be astronomical if you get it wrong.

You mean those who have very high salaries not being given a bonus? They are hardly going to fall hard on their arse. It is either very high salary and no bonus or very high salary and a whopping massive bonus.

 

However, their wages are not established as compensating for the costs of undertaking such responsibility and resulting potential personal costs.

[MilitantDogOwner]

I think the timing of the strike is a bit off...

 

"Lets go on strike in the months leading up to Christmas. You know the months were hundreds of thousands will be ordering gifts online and through Ebay."

 

At least the likes of Ebay are offering alternatives to Royal Snail, who are only doing themselves out of a job. Top job that one posties.

[scarbunny]

I really don't think the posties realise what they have actually achieved with this strike, yes they may get a pay rise in the short term but their actions have lost the Royal Mail millions, with the likes of Amazon and Play moving almost all of their future business to other companies.

 

In the long term the Royal Mail will have to make bigger cuts, more drastic modernisation, and large rounds of redundancies to make up the short fall.

 

Even in the very short term they have made their own jobs much harder when they return as they will have to sort an deliver millions of extra letters.

[Rog]

You mean those who have very high salaries not being given a bonus? They are hardly going to fall hard on their arse. It is either very high salary and no bonus or very high salary and a whopping massive bonus.

 

A high salary is not handed out as some sort of thing that comes easy. To get a highly paid job means that you have to work very hard when you’re doing it and in addition you must be able to provide a scarce skill and a good track record into the bargain.

 

On top of that you need to be attracted to work for someone else when you could be working for yourself using your skills, experience, and ability to build your own company, YOU become one of the market forces that must be considered.

 

Not fall on their arses if something goes seriously wrong? Again I don’t think you know or understand the way things work.

 

Most positions are filled under a fixed term contract and once finished if ‘you did good’ you may be offered another one subject to one being available or you more likely have to go looking for one and then YOU face market forces from the competition out there.

 

Believe me, a less than satisfactory record on your last contract will guarantee openings that might otherwise be open being slammed shut in your face. Not only do you loose a substantial part of your remuneration but also you loose future earning potential.

 

However, their wages are not established as compensating for the costs of undertaking such responsibility and resulting potential personal costs.

 

I really think you haven’t a clue about what has to be done in big time business to earn big time payment, about the 24/7/365,25 commitment that must be put in, about the personal costs for the individual and his or her family, about the cost to health, about the stress, and in the case of hands on project management overseas the real privations and actual dangers.

 

It’s all too easy to see the outward signs of success, all the bells and whistles, the retirement at 50, but it’s very hard to see the cost paid for it.

 

There’s times now that I really wonder if I should not have spent my life ‘on the horse trams in the summer, on the dole in the winter’ which was my alternative.

[gazza]

I really don't think the posties realise what they have actually achieved with this strike, yes they may get a pay rise in the short term but their actions have lost the Royal Mail millions, with the likes of Amazon and Play moving almost all of their future business to other companies.

 

In the long term the Royal Mail will have to make bigger cuts, more drastic modernisation, and large rounds of redundancies to make up the short fall.

 

Even in the very short term they have made their own jobs much harder when they return as they will have to sort an deliver millions of extra letters.

 

totaly spot on,

 

them walking out has prob cost each and every ones job in the company,

this is the reason why strikes are worthless, in the end all thay done is hurt themselfs,

 

And will give one more huge reason for royal mail to install machines to do the job, because thay dont strike, funny really as this was the reason thay were strikeing for,

 

give somebody a bit of rope, and in the end thay hang themselfs, and this is what thay have done,

 

if jobs have to go because of this, i think anybody that was in the strike action that caused this should forfit there redundanicy pay to maybe keep otheres in work,

 

strikers are no better then pikeys in my book

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I really don't think the posties realise what they have actually achieved with this strike, yes they may get a pay rise in the short term but their actions have lost the Royal Mail millions, with the likes of Amazon and Play moving almost all of their future business to other companies.

 

In the long term the Royal Mail will have to make bigger cuts, more drastic modernisation, and large rounds of redundancies to make up the short fall.

 

Even in the very short term they have made their own jobs much harder when they return as they will have to sort an deliver millions of extra letters.

Yes, but they won't have to sort them out by working extra hard or they could just strike again. And if more redundancies are threatened they will just strike again.

But if Royal Mail loses a lot of business, it is the bosses own fault for not dealing with issues of pay and working conditions. But the issue for the workers is not to think in the long term, they shouldn't have reason to consider the future of a company or organisation and support the company's interests.

 

The problem is that in such a weak position strikes are one of the only ways in which the workers can gain anything, but it doesn't guarantee a good outcome. If it is the only way to get a pay increase then it would be the only thing to do.

[gazza]

I really don't think the posties realise what they have actually achieved with this strike, yes they may get a pay rise in the short term but their actions have lost the Royal Mail millions, with the likes of Amazon and Play moving almost all of their future business to other companies.

 

In the long term the Royal Mail will have to make bigger cuts, more drastic modernisation, and large rounds of redundancies to make up the short fall.

 

Even in the very short term they have made their own jobs much harder when they return as they will have to sort an deliver millions of extra letters.

Yes, but they won't have to sort them out by working extra hard or they could just strike again. And if more redundancies are threatened they will just strike again.

But if Royal Mail loses a lot of business, it is the bosses own fault for not dealing with issues of pay and working conditions. But the issue for the workers is not to think in the long term, they shouldn't have reason to consider the future of a company or organisation and support the company's interests.

 

LDV if you read up on it, royal mail have met all the demands thay wanted,

 

thay are strikeing over them wanting to use machines to do some of there jobs,

so i would say the bossers have dealt with them vary well.

 

im sorry but a worker should consider the future of a company or organisation and support the company's interests, because at the end of the day its in there intrest as well as the bossers to keep the company running,

 

all thay are a fing parasites of the world

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Rog - I haven't said that those who want the high salaries have to work very hard. I don't doubt that a lot of directors work very hard. But certainly when you reach the millions for a salary it enters into the obscene and ridiculous and falls completely out of step with an already disproportionate structure for matching effort with pay.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

thay are strikeing over them wanting to use machines to do some of there jobs,

so i would say the bossers have dealt with them vary well.

Well clearly there are demands that have not been met. And do you not think it is understandable that they oppose such use of machines if it makes them redundant?

 

im sorry but a worker should consider the future of a company or organisation and support the company's interests, because at the end of the day its in there intrest as well as the bossers to keep the company running,

Well I am terribly sorry, but the issue of utmost important for the worker is their pay and their conditions. It is why they go to work. And it is crucial that the worker takes a selfish approach in maximising these - because these are their only interests in going to work. If direct action brings a company to being bust then it isn't worth doing and isn't a practical option, but where leverage can be gained it should be used.

 

all thay are a fing parasites of the world

Don't understand why they are parasites.

[gazza]

thay are strikeing over them wanting to use machines to do some of there jobs,

so i would say the bossers have dealt with them vary well Well clearly there are demands that have not been met. And do you not think it is understandable that they oppose such use of machines if it makes them redundant?

but does that give them the right to kill a whole comapny, i dont think so.

 

im sorry but a worker should consider the future of a company or organisation and support the company's interests, because at the end of the day its in there intrest as well as the bossers to keep the company running,Well I am terribly sorry, but the issue of utmost important for the worker is their pay and their conditions. It is why they go to work. And it is crucial that the worker takes a selfish approach in maximising these - because these are their only interests in going to work. If direct action brings a company to being bust then it isn't worth doing and isn't a practical option, but where leverage can be gained it should be used.

but if yuou kill the company you kill the wagers, so how is that in there intrest, it isent, but thay cant see past there nose

 

]all thay are a fing parasites of the world

Don't understand why they are parasites.

 

because thay act like a parasite

[Rog]

Rog - I haven't said that those who want the high salaries have to work very hard. I don't doubt that a lot of directors work very hard. But certainly when you reach the millions for a salary it enters into the obscene and ridiculous and falls completely out of step with an already disproportionate structure for matching effort with pay.

 

It's market forces at work. You must pay the best to get the best and when you need the best you gotta pay the price.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

but does that give them the right to kill a whole comapny, i dont think so.

It's the staff that matter, except from the perspective of those who own the company. If the staff aren't paid well and have poor conditions and it can improve these things, but won't then who cares about the company.

 

but if yuou kill the company you kill the wagers, so how is that in there intrest, it isent, but thay cant see past there nose

The other option would be to do nothing and accept poor pay and conditions, probably have lots of people thrown out of work, and have more people on the dole.

 

because thay act like a parasite

Well...there are plenty of examples of people and organisations acting as parasites in our society. Our whole society is full of organisations that seek to find news ways of sucking the money out of workers pockets. These postal workers just want better pay.