Eddie Lowey's Comments

[censorship]

I feel this shows the short-comings of David Cannan. He's raising a valid point - the highlighted section of my earlier posts suggests that the CM doesn't agree with the calculation of the MEA shops' loss and thinks it should be recalculated. Now that's a serious matter (it prompted the Elected Dictatorship thread on here or, if you accept the CM's position the MEA's accountancy practises need reviewing). So what we need to know from the Chairman of the MEA is has evidence been found to support the CM's allegation, but Cannon talks about "creative accounting" that's his interpretation and words, not the CM's. The CM uses this choice of words to make a pedantic point and derail the question. But all Cannon needed to do was read out the CM's original comments and ask if anything had been found to substantiate them.

This sort of observation is why people think you should stand for Keys...can't say I disagree

[Declan]

Aww schucks! They do tend to be people who don't know me.

[VinnieK]

True, but we tend not to know the people we vote for anyway...

[Theodolite]

5. The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mr Malarkey) to ask the Chief Minister:

605

Whether he considers the loss of £414,000 by the retail division of the Manx Electricity Authority for the

year end April 2010 as acceptable and, if so, why and, if not, if he will state what he intends to do about

it?

 

610 The President: Question 5. Hon. Member for Douglas South, Mr Malarkey.

Mr Malarkey: Mr President, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name, sir.

The President: Again, the Answer is in the hands of the Chief Minister.

615

 

The Chief Minister (Mr Brown): Mr President, it is unfortunate that the Authority sustained a trading

loss, as identified. However, I have asked the MEA to examination their accounting practices relating to their

retail business to ensure that only the real costs associated with the retail operations are identified in their

account breakdown to ensure a truer figure is set out.

 

620 As Hon. Members are aware, Government is developing policies that will support our town and village

centres and their businesses, as well as providing improved access to Government and Government services at

a local regional level. This includes examining how we can better utilise existing facilities and, where

appropriate, maximise Government facilities in the regions by merging, where possible, the MEA, Post Office

and some Government services into one building to secure regional services in at least all of our town centres.

 

625 A key consideration in developing this policy is the independent report by Roger Tym & Partners, which

indicated that there is a strong link between the MEA retail outlets and the sustainability and regeneration of

our four town centres into the future and also Government's desire to secure post office facilities throughout

the Island, sir.

 

630 The President: Mr Watterson, Hon. Member.

 

Mr Watterson: Thank you.

 

I would just appreciate if the Chief Minister could read out the first paragraph or so of his Answer,

because it sounds suspiciously like, 'If you are not happy with the figure, you fiddle the figures.'

 

635Mr Cannan: Absolutely. Creative accounting!

 

The President: Chief Minister.

 

640 The Chief Minister: Well, not being accountants, sir, I do not understand that, but maybe the Hon.

Member does.

 

Can I just say that what I have asked for is to ensure that costs that are put against retailing are actually the

true costs relating to retailing and not, again, being loaded the other way.

 

Source

 

As far as I can tell, the CM believes asking MEA to recalculate the loss because he doesn't accept it, is not creative accounting. But Cannon does. Hence the row today. It's about how you interpret the bold bit above.

 

Is the source correct though?

 

Personally, right now I would rather believe what the tooth fairy might tell me.

[Declan]

It matches what he says here.

 

The issue with Lowey's comments are not with the Early Publication but with the final Hansard. ie it's been removed from the record that's kept for posterity.

 

Essentially, I see it that the stenographers record what's said, this goes to the Early Publication - Tynwald members then have the chance to correct any errors before Hansard is produced. If this process is being abused (which the Lowey incident implies) the Early Publication will be a better reflect of what is said.

 

Personally, I think it's sad that Phil Gawne's suggestion that the audio recordings of debates are made available on-line wasn't taken up.

[Moghrey Mie]

It matches what he says here.

 

The issue with Lowey's comments are not with the Early Publication but with the final Hansard. ie it's been removed from the record that's kept for posterity.

 

Essentially, I see it that the stenographers record what's said, this goes to the Early Publication - Tynwald members then have the chance to correct any errors before Hansard is produced. If this process is being abused (which the Lowey incident implies) the Early Publication will be a better reflect of what is said.

 

Personally, I think it's sad that Phil Gawne's suggestion that the audio recordings of debates are made available on-line.

 

 

I think IOM Newspapers may have reported Eddie Lowey's original remarks.

[Declan]

Yeah it's early in this thread. Also there's a recording...

 

 

Manx Radio

[tonythetash]

TB quote "Mr President, it is unfortunate that the Authority sustained a trading

loss, as identified. However, I have asked the MEA to examination their accounting practices relating to their

retail business to ensure that only the real costs associated with the retail operations are identified in their

account breakdown to ensure a truer figure is set out"

 

Surely if TB has asked them to 're-examine' the figures and 'ensure only the real costs' are identified to indicate a 'truer figure' then even he is sceptical that there is some discrepancy.

He may not have actually said 'creative accounting' has taken place but I think it can be taken as red that's what he thinks. For the question to be raised in the first place suggests that at least some of his colleagues think so too, that is the ones that were awake!

[Moghrey Mie]

It matches what he says here.

 

The issue with Lowey's comments are not with the Early Publication but with the final Hansard. ie it's been removed from the record that's kept for posterity.

 

Essentially, I see it that the stenographers record what's said, this goes to the Early Publication - Tynwald members then have the chance to correct any errors before Hansard is produced. If this process is being abused (which the Lowey incident implies) the Early Publication will be a better reflect of what is said.

 

Personally, I think it's sad that Phil Gawne's suggestion that the audio recordings of debates are made available on-line.

 

 

I think IOM Newspapers may have reported Eddie Lowey's original remarks.

 

Wednesday October 28th 'Towel on Head remark..........'

[Theodolite]

So it is now common knowledge and agreed that Mr Lowey's reply to the debate is not included in the Hansard record.

 

There could be a number of possible reasons for this happening, and considering the seriousness and implications of the matter, even the 'conspiracy theories' are looking good:

 

1. Eddie realised that, especially after all the media coverage, that his remarks were not too jovial for some and entirely inappropriate for such a senior politician to make under any circumstances. In public in Tynwald and broadcast across the world. He had a quiet word and a nudge and a wink with whoever is responsible to change the record.

 

2. The Chief Minister and or the Council of Ministers realised that such remarks could cause damage to international relations for the Isle of Man, even local relations. They had it removed.

 

3. The equipment broke down. Quite conveniently perhaps. That is to say, just after the previous MLC Mr Downie finished what he had to say and the equipment kicked back into life just before the President of Tynwald spoke to call an adjournment.

 

Any others?

[Moghrey Mie]

So it is now common knowledge and agreed that Mr Lowey's reply to the debate is not included in the Hansard record.

 

There could be a number of possible reasons for this happening, and considering the seriousness and implications of the matter, even the 'conspiracy theories' are looking good:

 

1. Eddie realised that, especially after all the media coverage, that his remarks were not too jovial for some and entirely inappropriate for such a senior politician to make under any circumstances. In public in Tynwald and broadcast across the world. He had a quiet word and a nudge and a wink with whoever is responsible to change the record.

 

2. The Chief Minister and or the Council of Ministers realised that such remarks could cause damage to international relations for the Isle of Man, even local relations. They had it removed.

 

3. The equipment broke down. Quite conveniently perhaps. That is to say, just after the previous MLC Mr Downie finished what he had to say and the equipment kicked back into life just before the President of Tynwald spoke to call an adjournment.

 

Any others?

 

A draft copy of Hansard goes to members and they often tweak what they have said?

[Declan]

Does anyone recall whether it was in the preliminary Early Publication, if it was that would rule out 3.

 

Personally, given the choice between cock-up and conspiracy, cock up is most likely, therefore it seems more likely that option 1 is what happened rather than option 2. Option 2 requires a majority of Council of Ministers to vote for that action, and those who voted against to then keep quiet about it. Is that likely, to save a peripheral figure like Eddie Lowey a tiny bit of extra embarrassment about already widely reported comments.

[Moghrey Mie]

Does anyone recall whether it was in the preliminary Early Publication, if it was that would rule out 3.

 

Personally, given the choice between cock-up and conspiracy, cock up is most likely, therefore it seems more likely that option 1 is what happened rather than option 2. Option 2 requires a majority of Council of Ministers to vote for that action, and those who voted against to then keep quiet about it. Is that likely, to save a peripheral figure like Eddie Lowey a tiny bit of extra embarrassment about already widely reported comments.

 

 

What does it say at paragraph 4480 page 91 of the Hansard report?

[Declan]

Mr Lowey:

 

Mr President, most people know it is my back yard, and I suppose I am one of

those trespassers in the past. I have ferreted right up alongside the tower. I do not think I was

wearing a towel over my head or looking Middle Eastern at the time but, seriously, I have done

that. I know times have changed…

 

 

Strange that.

 

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