The Most Serious Judicial Corruption Scandal In Us History

[La_Dolce_Vita]

So now explain why in another post you stated that a father whose daughter was repeatedly sexually abused and raped by one of these officials and was told this official would never be prosecuted, was wrong to kill the official when he felt he had no alternative way to protect his daughter and other young girls. As you just said "If the Judges can sit there and hand down sentences in a legal position and yet be found to have ignored the law in a system they profess to abide by and expect others to then carte blanche to those they have affected who wish for retribution."

I await your next contradiction with eager anticipation.

If you read my later posts in that thread I made a point of saying that if it was a Judge who was committing such crimes then the only option would be to take the law into your own hands. I didn't realise early on that it was a Judge who was committing such crimes.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

There are some people who by their actions and / pr personality defects should be removed from society. This should be done in some cases as a punishment and in others as a punishment plus a conditioning to instill a Pavlovian fear of ever facing being punished again.

Nobody should be removed from society unless there is a certainty of them harming others. And I certainly do not think that the threat of punishment should be used to instill fear. It's arcane. It doesn't teach people why they have done wrong (if they have) and how to do otherwise, just simply that you will be punished.

 

Nonsense. Nobody is MADE to go into crime, it is a choice they make.

They are not MADE to, I know that. However, the very manner in which our Society is structured and the society they grow up in shapes who they are. For example, our society is one where the vast majority own very little and a significant proportion of this group can be said to be very deprived. In such a way, it is no wonder they resort to crimes relating that relate to property theft. We get the crime we deserve.

 

In any case, if the private sector can provide what is needed at a lower cost to the tax payer than the public sector then government should use what costs least.

I am no fan of the state, but at least there is the pretense that such people are in the 'care' of society for the benefit of society, rather than have private power groups take charge of removing people for a fee. It is a ghastly situation when people are making a profit out of such things, especially when such problems are the responsibility of society.

 

It’s a bit of a slightly gray area because there is the law of the land and the moral imperative to consider. For example if my family were starving then I would steal but it would still be stealing.

By the 'law of the land' in liberal democracies today, yes, it would be considered stealing. But I don't think it should and would happy to know to know you had taken what you wanted from Tesco (for example) to feed your family. The problem is with the system

 

On the other hand if someone breaks the law in the absence of a real moral imperative, then they most certainly are scum.

I think you afford the law in our country too much credit and respectability. It is an imposed law from above (by an elite). I don't agree with that. I know you think that in our country the citizen have every chance of changes the law, but you know I disagree.

[Rog]

Nobody should be removed from society unless there is a certainty of them harming others.

 

There we must differ. There are those who loose the right to be a part of normal society for all time and in that group I lump pedophiles, murderers, terrorists and their supporters.

 

There are also recidivist criminals who should be taken out for all time.

 

And I certainly do not think that the threat of punishment should be used to instill fear. It's arcane. It doesn't teach people why they have done wrong (if they have) and how to do otherwise, just simply that you will be punished.

 

It may well be arcane, and it may not teach people why they have done wrong, but there are those individuals for whom it is the ONLY way that a message can be got across.

 

They are not MADE to, I know that. However, the very manner in which our Society is structured and the society they grow up in shapes who they are.

 

For example, our society is one where the vast majority own very little and a significant proportion of this group can be said to be very deprived. In such a way, it is no wonder they resort to crimes relating that relate to property theft. We get the crime we deserve.

 

 

It IS a wonder that people resort to crime to get what they want. Note, I use the word ‘want’ rather than ‘need’ because of the Moral Imperative.

 

But in any case our society is the one in which we all live. It IS a dog eat dog world, that’s because a dog eat dog attitude is human nature, it’s been the driving force behind human evolution because when you think about it it’s nothing other than Darwinian evolution at work.

 

I am no fan of the state, but at least there is the pretense that such people are in the 'care' of society for the benefit of society, rather than have private power groups take charge of removing people for a fee. It is a ghastly situation when people are making a profit out of such things, especially when such problems are the responsibility of society.

 

 

Why is it a ghastly situation because some people have established a service industry for the use of society and from which they are making a profit? Is it a ghastly situation that private medicine exists? Or education can be had from a private rather than a state provided source? I see no problem with it.

 

By the 'law of the land' in liberal democracies today, yes, it would be considered stealing. But I don't think it should and would happy to know to know you had taken what you wanted from Tesco (for example) to feed your family. The problem is with the system.

 

 

Theft is theft. If an individual decides that he will steal for whatever reason the crime remains the same. In fact providing a person is in the UK legally, isn’t a drug abuser (and I include alcohol and tobacco in that) there is no need for anyone to steal to feed and otherwise provide for their family.

 

I think you afford the law in our country too much credit and respectability. It is an imposed law from above (by an elite). I don't agree with that. I know you think that in our country the citizen have every chance of changes the law, but you know I disagree.

 

 

The law is not imposed by an elite.

 

It is imposed by an elected body, a body elected by the general population.

 

The Law that emerges from that elected body is administered by a designated judiciary, it is realised by a police force or others who are delegated for addressing certain specific areas, and any sanctions for those who do not live within the law are applied by disciplined groups from within the population who themselves work within the law.

 

The system may not be always be well implemented, but the fault is then not with the system but as a result of occasional failures and other breakdowns in how it is being realised.

 

I see things as being quite simpy that if you break the law you should suffer. End of.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

There we must differ. There are those who loose the right to be a part of normal society for all time and in that group I lump pedophiles, murderers, terrorists and their supporters

I assume you mean non-state terrorists. Otherwise we'd have the governments of many states (including the US, UK, Israeli, and Russian) all sent for the chopping block. And then what about the populace who are involved by allowing these governments to get away it. Yes, I have to assume the definition is very limited. As for murderers, well I don't see how killing people who have killed is the right way to deal with things.

 

I don't see why you think these things are deserving of death.

 

 

It may well be arcane, and it may not teach people why they have done wrong, but there are those individuals for whom it is the ONLY way that a message can be got across.

If all someone understands is fear through threat of punishment then psychiatric help is required. Such people are need help.

 

It IS a wonder that people resort to crime to get what they want. Note, I use the word ‘want’ rather than ‘need’ because of the Moral Imperative.

But in any case our society is the one in which we all live. It IS a dog eat dog world, that’s because a dog eat dog attitude is human nature, it’s been the driving force behind human evolution because when you think about it it’s nothing other than Darwinian evolution at work.

By your own explanation, such things as murder, theft, for example of this human nature and dog-eat-dog attitude in action. But I don't agree with that. People have unjustified control of resources and capital. Some have so little that they only method simply method to acquire anything is to steal. It doesn't make it right when such people steal from other workers, but that is where motivation largely for a lot of people. Our society requires change and certainly the quasi-capitalist society is not one that reflects evolution.

 

Why is it a ghastly situation because some people have established a service industry for the use of society and from which they are making a profit?

Because most of the crimes are a result of profitmaking and capitalism, yet such a service industry exists to exploit this situation.

Is it a ghastly situation that private medicine exists?

Definitely considering the unjustifiable costs of medicine which are intentional kept high and where serious inefficiencies in production and development exist. And a private education system is one where the disadvantaged will remain so.

 

Theft is theft.

Defintions of theft are dependent on what is considered stealing.

 

The law is not imposed by an elite.It is imposed by an elected body, a body elected by the general population.

Which are an elite given the power they have.

 

The Law that emerges from that elected body is administered by a designated judiciary, it is realised by a police force or others who are delegated for addressing certain specific areas, and any sanctions for those who do not live within the law are applied by disciplined groups from within the population who themselves work within the law.

I know how liberal democratic systems work. However, I don't agree that there is popular participation in deciding what laws the people are to be subject to. I think you over exaggerate to a huge degree how much power people have in changing laws and ignore the role of business and government in ensuring compliance with the system that exists through propaganda. Most laws people have born into without involvement and without choice.

 

The system may not be always be well implemented, but the fault is then not with the system

I disagree. But you probably know why by now.

 

I see things as being quite simpy that if you break the law you should suffer. End of.

Ooh, you are harsh.

[bluemonday]

At last, I've sussed you, you're an internet forum version of a MIB as in UFO conspiracy theories

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_in_black

 

They have been described as seeming confused by the nature of everyday items such as pens, eating utensils or food, as well as using outdated slang,