Jobs For The Boys (in Blue)

[Alias]

I think it has already been said that Police pay for their own pensions. (11%?) There is no burden on the State unless they live into their 80's. And the average age at death for an officer who has served 30 years working shifts used to be 58 years.

I'd like to see that substantiated, sounds like BS. 11% is a large contribution sure, but compared to the early retirement age (someone said they retired at 43) - say if someone retired at 50 on 2/3rds pay after doing their 25 years service, even assuming their salary didn't rise during their career these contributions have been matched by payouts in 5 years (including inflation). Even unskilled manual workers have a life expectancy of 66, so I doubt that is true as well.

 

It's not just about how deserving these people are, if it can't be afforded they're just creating a ponzi scheme off the rest of our backs.

[Lawnmower]

I think it has already been said that Police pay for their own pensions. (11%?) There is no burden on the State unless they live into their 80's. And the average age at death for an officer who has served 30 years working shifts used to be 58 years.

I'd like to see that substantiated, sounds like BS. 11% is a large contribution sure, but compared to the early retirement age (someone said they retired at 43) - say if someone retired at 50 on 2/3rds pay after doing their 25 years service, even assuming their salary didn't rise during their career these contributions have been matched by payouts in 5 years (including inflation). Even unskilled manual workers have a life expectancy of 66, so I doubt that is true as well.

 

It's not just about how deserving these people are, if it can't be afforded they're just creating a ponzi scheme off the rest of our backs.

 

It certainly used to be true in the 80's. Shift work is notorious for causing ill health, and 30 years of it is a big strain on the body. And the retirement age is 49 at the earliest - most go on longer - and as far as I know, the best deal is half pay, not two thirds, but I am not sure of that.

[KMC]

I think it has already been said that Police pay for their own pensions. (11%?) There is no burden on the State unless they live into their 80's. And the average age at death for an officer who has served 30 years working shifts used to be 58 years.

I'd like to see that substantiated, sounds like BS. 11% is a large contribution sure, but compared to the early retirement age (someone said they retired at 43) - say if someone retired at 50 on 2/3rds pay after doing their 25 years service, even assuming their salary didn't rise during their career these contributions have been matched by payouts in 5 years (including inflation). Even unskilled manual workers have a life expectancy of 66, so I doubt that is true as well.

 

It's not just about how deserving these people are, if it can't be afforded they're just creating a ponzi scheme off the rest of our backs.

 

It certainly used to be true in the 80's. Shift work is notorious for causing ill health, and 30 years of it is a big strain on the body. And the retirement age is 49 at the earliest - most go on longer - and as far as I know, the best deal is half pay, not two thirds, but I am not sure of that.

 

Half pay relates to an 80th scheme which was pension and a lump sum, whereas the 2/3rds related to a 60th scheme where it was pension only and if you wanted a lump sum, then you had to commute part of your pension. In all, both are exactly the same as far as the level of benefits being paid out

 

Most employers would prefer a 60th scheme, as not all members will commute for a lump sum, therefore putting less of an exit strain on the schemes assets.

[SunnyNorth]

The average number of years a copper lives after retirement is 7 (yes - SEVEN). This figure is told to the Police when they start.

 

You miserable bunch of bastards begrudging hard working men and women something in their short retirement that they've previoulsy paid for their whole working life.

[jimbms]

LDV I really do hope one night you get mugged or beaten up or both and when this happens please be sure to tell the attending officer that you feel he is an oppressor of people and should give the one who attacked you help in finding a use in life.

 

In the mean time I suggest you join the Trans World Anarchist Teaching Society as you are more than qualified to be one.

[manxman34]

Why is there so much anger and hatred on this forum? Many posts say more about the posters than the subject. LDV for one needs help, preferably with an off switch on his/her computer. Now some genius will write in telling me to f-off but honestly, what about some compassion? Look at the stuff that's gone up re the Peel teacher - not yet convicted but some benighted correspondent is talking about 'extinguishing life' .

[Jarrat]

The average number of years a copper lives after retirement is 7 (yes - SEVEN). This figure is told to the Police when they start.

 

 

 

Are you really sure 7 years after early retirement would apply to our manx force though. Its not as if we have a Lex Lutherien criminal fraternity here to deal with, just a few heavy drinkers and scallies who usually calm down in their 40's hardly career criminals.

 

I'm inclined to agree with Gladys that if your retiring through ill health and receiving a pension then it would be fairer for that pension to be suspended once you restart working in whatever job.

 

And I'm not a pinky or leftie or anachist nutter just thought I'd pop my tuppence in for what its worth. And its my first post so was wondering whr the flamers were.

[Lawnmower]

I know that the Police used to nearly all work 30 years on full shifts. When they retired they were advised to take the lump sum, rather than the weekly pension because statistically they were not likely to live long. I knew a couple of friends who were told that in the late seventies early eighties.

 

It is probably likely that less of them nowadays do the full thirty years on shifts, so perhaps their health will be better and they might live a bit longer.

[WTF]

The average number of years a copper lives after retirement is 7 (yes - SEVEN). This figure is told to the Police when they start.

 

 

 

Are you really sure 7 years after early retirement would apply to our manx force though. Its not as if we have a Lex Lutherien criminal fraternity here to deal with, just a few heavy drinkers and scallies who usually calm down in their 40's hardly career criminals.

 

I'm inclined to agree with Gladys that if your retiring through ill health and receiving a pension then it would be fairer for that pension to be suspended once you restart working in whatever job.

 

And I'm not a pinky or leftie or anachist nutter just thought I'd pop my tuppence in for what its worth. And its my first post so was wondering whr the flamers were.

 

i can't see how that can work?, a copper who has an income on his pension of 1300 quid a month isn't going to take a part time 20 hour a week job for 200 quid a week if its costing him 500 quid a month reduction in income.. and lets not forget that there are plenty of OAP's that work part time, do they get their pensions stopped too cos they are working?? and just because someone is on a pension of 1300 quid a month, who are we or anybody else to say that is all you are allowed in total income cos you were only a copper when you worked?? a pension is not some gift, it is earned, and if people can add to their earnings, good for them.

[KMC]

A very good explanation of Shift Work and it's associated Health Issues Clicky

 

I must admit that I was totally unaware of the connection between shift work and health issues, and I'm only glad I left the force myself when I did, and have only ever worked 9 to 5 since

[KMC]

The average number of years a copper lives after retirement is 7 (yes - SEVEN). This figure is told to the Police when they start.

 

 

 

Are you really sure 7 years after early retirement would apply to our manx force though. Its not as if we have a Lex Lutherien criminal fraternity here to deal with, just a few heavy drinkers and scallies who usually calm down in their 40's hardly career criminals.

 

I'm inclined to agree with Gladys that if your retiring through ill health and receiving a pension then it would be fairer for that pension to be suspended once you restart working in whatever job.

 

And I'm not a pinky or leftie or anachist nutter just thought I'd pop my tuppence in for what its worth. And its my first post so was wondering whr the flamers were.

 

i can't see how that can work?, a copper who has an income on his pension of 1300 quid a month isn't going to take a part time 20 hour a week job for 200 quid a week if its costing him 500 quid a month reduction in income.. and lets not forget that there are plenty of OAP's that work part time, do they get their pensions stopped too cos they are working?? and just because someone is on a pension of 1300 quid a month, who are we or anybody else to say that is all you are allowed in total income cos you were only a copper when you worked?? a pension is not some gift, it is earned, and if people can add to their earnings, good for them.

 

WTF,

 

I think they mean the reduction is only where retirement is taken early on Ill health grounds, and if they return to work.

 

Ill health occupational pensions equate to the full pensionable service to normal retirement date ( 60 or 65) but calculated at today's age and on today's pensionable pay. This would therefore mean that someone receiving a pension on ill health grounds, would have a greater enhancement over say a colleague who left service with a retained pension at the same age, the same salary and with the same level of service !!

[Gladys]

To be clear, I have no problem with retirees finding work after their retirement. I just have a problem with them taking up substantially the same job with the employer that has just retired them. Okay, so they may have been contributing to the pension scheme, but retirees taking pensions puts a hell of a strain on a scheme and if they are working, perhaps they should be given the option of either freezing their claim, and contributions, until they really retire, or continuing to contribute to it, both with enhanced benefits.

 

The problem is one of distortion, both in terms of the employment stats for the employer and the eating into an unrealistically generous pension scheme, which has to go on way beyond the life expectation of the currently retiring employees. There is also the problem of career development for those down the scale; if the headroom is blocked by superannuated (and so cheaper) old codgers, then how can you encourage, motivate and develop the next generation?

 

There is much to be said about wisdom and experience, but there is also much to be said about fixing a realistic retirement age and pension expectation.

[KMC]

To be clear, I have no problem with retirees finding work after their retirement. I just have a problem with them taking up substantially the same job with the employer that has just retired them. Okay, so they may have been contributing to the pension scheme, but retirees taking pensions puts a hell of a strain on a scheme and if they are working, perhaps they should be given the option of either freezing their claim, and contributions, until they really retire, or continuing to contribute to it, both with enhanced benefits.

 

The problem is one of distortion, both in terms of the employment stats for the employer and the eating into an unrealistically generous pension scheme, which has to go on way beyond the life expectation of the currently retiring employees. There is also the problem of career development for those down the scale; if the headroom is blocked by superannuated (and so cheaper) old codgers, then how can you encourage, motivate and develop the next generation?

 

There is much to be said about wisdom and experience, but there is also much to be said about fixing a realistic retirement age and pension expectation.

 

Very well said Gladys

 

Before the more recent pension reforms, you had to retire and leave your employment fully to receive your pension. However, the more recent reforms now allow you to take your benefits in full, and then continue to work in the same position. This has therefore given rise to even more occupations taking early retirement and then continuing to work in the same position. Job succession by the younger and next generation is being prolonged as a result!!

[La_Dolce_Vita]

And I'm not a pinky or leftie or anachist nutter just thought I'd pop my tuppence in for what its worth. And its my first post so was wondering whr the flamers were.

If you are non of these things you MUST be a fascist and I'm the flamer.

[Gladys]

Poor effort.