Four-year Old Expelled From School

[La_Dolce_Vita]

It restores a particular parent-child relationship that based on using force or violence to maintain control. Anyway, we have been here before with this discussion. But even if you think that parents can claim to be justified in using force, do you think it is absolutely necessary to use it to maintain control? Aren't we actually seeing in society a situation where no methods of control are being used by parents, nevermind violent ones?

[jimbms]

But you could say it is natural, after all there are a multitude of examples in the animal kingdom where the parent animal will nip a young animal when it misbehaves, so what you are now saying LDV is the whole animal kingdom is wrong.

[Scarface]

There are a several conditions which can make fairly young children well nigh unteachable. My wife is a teaching assistant

and there are one or two kiddies around who can change in an instant to be violent in the extreme, with someone actually getting knocked out and another with specs broken, so that two staff members always have to be present. You would expect someone who worked on the door of a nightclub to have to take the occasional smack in the face, but not classroom staff.

It needs an awful lot of patience, skill and dedication to gain the trust of their pupils.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

But you could say it is natural, after all there are a multitude of examples in the animal kingdom where the parent animal will nip a young animal when it misbehaves, so what you are now saying LDV is the whole animal kingdom is wrong.

First thing...referring to a multitude of examples is not the whole animal kingdom. And what examples do you know of?

 

Far, far more importantly, are we going to take the behaviour of other animals as our moral code? Just because other animals do it does not make it necessarily 'natural' for us to do it, nor does it make it correct. Can human beings help themselves from using force on their children? I think so. And our social patterns, behaviours, and intelligence operated on quite a different level to other animals.

[jimbms]

But you could say it is natural, after all there are a multitude of examples in the animal kingdom where the parent animal will nip a young animal when it misbehaves, so what you are now saying LDV is the whole animal kingdom is wrong.

First thing...referring to a multitude of examples is not the whole animal kingdom. And what examples do you know of?

 

Far, far more importantly, are we going to take the behaviour of other animals as our moral code? Just because other animals do it does not make it necessarily 'natural' for us to do it, nor does it make it correct. Can human beings help themselves from using force on their children? I think so. And our social patterns, behaviours, and intelligence operated on quite a different level to other animals.

Again you are talking bollocks, you only have to watch animals to see how they are with their young, go look it up yourself I am not going to do it for you, with rgeards to humans, we are the most dangerous of all animals and our various patterns of social and intellectual patterns is not very different to other animals, we say we are on a higher intellectual level but who is to say we are.....only us, are we correct, who knows.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

we are the most dangerous of all animals and our various patterns of social and intellectual patterns is not very different to other animals

Yeah we are more dangerous, so...? And yes, many of our social patterns and intellectual patterns are similar, very similar in fact. But we have the capacity to understand what they are, consider their value, and take control over them when they are harmful or have a negative impact on others. And we are moral creatures, we consider what is right and wrong based on commonly held values. We rarely excuse acting on our basic instincts simply because it is 'natural' and that it is what animals do. I therefore think that you are talking bollocks.

[jimbms]

we are the most dangerous of all animals and our various patterns of social and intellectual patterns is not very different to other animals

Yeah we are more dangerous, so...? And yes, many of our social patterns and intellectual patterns are similar, very similar in fact. But we have the capacity to understand what they are, consider their value, and take control over them when they are harmful or have a negative impact on others. And we are moral creatures, we consider what is right and wrong based on commonly held values. We rarely excuse acting on our basic instincts simply because it is 'natural' and that it is what animals do. I therefore think that you are talking bollocks.

So you are saying now that animals are incapable of rational thinking or having morals or that they cannot understand or have feelings and emotions

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Do they rationalise their behaviours in the same way we do? No. Do they have morals? No. Do they have feelings and emotions? Yes.

[jimbms]

Do they rationalise their behaviours in the same way we do? No. Do they have morals? No. Do they have feelings and emotions? Yes.

Ok lets us see your proof they don't

[La_Dolce_Vita]

You seem to be labouring this idea a bit too much. I think you just trying to be cussed for the sake of it? You don't need proof that animals do not have morals. All except a small number of 'higher functioning' animals act on instinct. Humans do not.

[tiggz]

opinions are like assholes on this subject, they have been for years. As a parent myself I do not hit my children, however...I cannot be sure of what my reaction would be if my 4 year old child attacked someone. If you have an already violent child I dont think that striking out in violence is the right answer!!! Fortunately I have never had to deal with an issue like this, but violence does not cure violence especially in little children. If a parent strikes a child out of anger chances are the child will take that as an acceptable behaviour. This story only leaves me with one question...what is the childs home life like???

[manxy]

opinions are like assholes on this subject, they have been for years. As a parent myself I do not hit my children, however...I cannot be sure of what my reaction would be if my 4 year old child attacked someone. If you have an already violent child I dont think that striking out in violence is the right answer!!! Fortunately I have never had to deal with an issue like this, but violence does not cure violence especially in little children. If a parent strikes a child out of anger chances are the child will take that as an acceptable behaviour. This story only leaves me with one question...what is the childs home life like???

I saw this on the news the other day and showed the child with his granddad.

I think I was wanting to stereotype his mother as a single parent who was young, immature, idle layabout, living in a council house who couldn't say a sentence without some type of expletive in it, but one of the main areas that struck me, was that he had two parents who were both working, which is a positive indicator in my book (for what its worth).

I know, being single blah blah etc etc doesn't make any parent automatically bad, but you do hear of them and I just feared the worst.

Hopefully the child and family will get help in working out the behavioural, genetic or even diet problem, before this could possibly get out of hand and I wish them well.

[Miss Roo]

opinions are like assholes on this subject, they have been for years. As a parent myself I do not hit my children, however...I cannot be sure of what my reaction would be if my 4 year old child attacked someone. If you have an already violent child I dont think that striking out in violence is the right answer!!! Fortunately I have never had to deal with an issue like this, but violence does not cure violence especially in little children. If a parent strikes a child out of anger chances are the child will take that as an acceptable behaviour. This story only leaves me with one question...what is the childs home life like???

I saw this on the news the other day and showed the child with his granddad.

I think I was wanting to stereotype his mother as a single parent who was young, immature, idle layabout, living in a council house who couldn't say a sentence without some type of expletive in it, but one of the main areas that struck me, was that he had two parents who were both working, which is a positive indicator in my book (for what its worth).

I know, being single blah blah etc etc doesn't make any parent automatically bad, but you do hear of them and I just feared the worst.

Hopefully the child and family will get help in working out the behavioural, genetic or even diet problem, before this could possibly get out of hand and I wish them well.

Gosh that is generalising just a tad, single mothers i guess they are viewed by some as the crap on the bottom of one's shoes!!!

Just a few single mums

JK Rowling

Jerry Hall

Madonna

Carol vorderman's mum

Nicole Kidman, to name just a few.

Sad thing is anyone at any point in their parenting life anyone can become a single parent at any point in their life and they wouldnt even see it coming, husband/wife can just up and leave or die at any time and hey ho your a single parent, i do hate the label and the picture it builds in peoples heads.

Ok so there are those who have babies and bring them up single handed, good for them for doing a job which really should take two, you dont generalise about the men who leave these poor women and their children but they are the ones who should be judged, in my opinion!!!

ABSENT FATHERS!!! Pahhhhhhh

[manxy]

opinions are like assholes on this subject, they have been for years. As a parent myself I do not hit my children, however...I cannot be sure of what my reaction would be if my 4 year old child attacked someone. If you have an already violent child I dont think that striking out in violence is the right answer!!! Fortunately I have never had to deal with an issue like this, but violence does not cure violence especially in little children. If a parent strikes a child out of anger chances are the child will take that as an acceptable behaviour. This story only leaves me with one question...what is the childs home life like???

I saw this on the news the other day and showed the child with his granddad.

I think I was wanting to stereotype his mother as a single parent who was young, immature, idle layabout, living in a council house who couldn't say a sentence without some type of expletive in it, but one of the main areas that struck me, was that he had two parents who were both working, which is a positive indicator in my book (for what its worth).

I know, being single blah blah etc etc doesn't make any parent automatically bad, but you do hear of them and I just feared the worst.

Hopefully the child and family will get help in working out the behavioural, genetic or even diet problem, before this could possibly get out of hand and I wish them well.

Gosh that is generalising just a tad, single mothers i guess they are viewed by some as the crap on the bottom of one's shoes!!!

Just a few single mums

JK Rowling

Jerry Hall

Madonna

Carol vorderman's mum

Nicole Kidman, to name just a few.

Sad thing is anyone at any point in their parenting life anyone can become a single parent at any point in their life and they wouldnt even see it coming, husband/wife can just up and leave or die at any time and hey ho your a single parent, i do hate the label and the picture it builds in peoples heads.

Ok so there are those who have babies and bring them up single handed, good for them for doing a job which really should take two, you dont generalise about the men who leave these poor women and their children but they are the ones who should be judged, in my opinion!!!

ABSENT FATHERS!!! Pahhhhhhh

I know what you mean Roo, but initially at the time, I was expecting the worst sort of parent for the child which would have simplified things for me for my massively wrong stereotyping of a parent (at that time), but as in lots of things, there's always twists to every story and was pleased that it appears that he has some stability in his life.

Single parents do have a bad time if they are lacking family support and are quickly seen as my stereotyped example, but one thing I've noticed, is that a single parent has one of the hardest jobs in the world and resilience plays a key part.

I do know what you mean though and didn't put it across as best as I could

[Miss Roo]

ABSENT FATHERS!!! Pahhhhhhh

I know what you mean Roo, but initially at the time, I was expecting the worst sort of parent for the child which would have simplified things for me for my massively wrong stereotyping of a parent (at that time), but as in lots of things, there's always twists to every story and was pleased that it appears that he has some stability in his life.

Single parents do have a bad time if they are lacking family support and are quickly seen as my stereotyped example, but one thing I've noticed, is that a single parent has one of the hardest jobs in the world and resilience plays a key part.

I do know what you mean though and didn't put it across as best as I could

You may have guessed i am a bit of an absent father basher!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited to add; I am a married mother myself!!!

 

Not that it is actually relevant.