P.K. Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Gather round, little sock-puppets, gather round... After all, no thread would be complete without your cutting wit and repartee, your scintillating insights, your incisive logic and the way you formulate your arguments with such skill and daring - sticking strictly to the facts of course. Unfortunately it's all too easy to imagine your contribution to the human race being similar to your efforts on here... Well, I've read through a lot of the newsprint on Mr Blair's appearance on the Chillcot inquiry. Absolutely no surprises and once again it just illustrates what a complete and utter waste of time and money this is. It does amuse me though how the BBB's like Freggyragh get up on their hind legs desperate to pin the blame for the deaths in Iraq on, well, just about anyone. Yet when the Baathist regime were murdering thousands upon thousands the likes of Freggyragh just couldn't give a stuff. I wonder if they know what the term "hypocrite" means? Still, as the HoC voted to go to war and as it was the UK elctorate who put them there maybe Freggyragh should get hold of the UK Electoral Roll and do a mailshot telling them how ultimately their voting is to blame for the UK involvement in Iraq... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terse Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Still, as the misinformed HoC voted to go to war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Still, as the misinformed HoC voted to go to war Fine, let's see your proof. Oh dear.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 They decided to go to war, it has now turned into one mighty fuck up, they need someone to blame, let them find a scapegoat then get British troops out of this yank made mess and leave the yanks too it, simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 when the Baathist regime were murdering thousands upon thousands the likes of Freggyragh just couldn't give a stuff. I wonder if they know what the term "hypocrite" means? The same Baathist regime which the west including Britain and her military and security industries armed for so many years - including supplying the means by which they produced and delivered chemical weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 when the Baathist regime were murdering thousands upon thousands the likes of Freggyragh just couldn't give a stuff. I wonder if they know what the term "hypocrite" means? The same Baathist regime which the west including Britain and her military and security industries armed for so many years - including supplying the means by which they produced and delivered chemical weapons. Yep, that's the one. Mind you, the vast majority of their military kit was crap Eastern Block - thank goodness. By the way, you're not supposed to post on here that Iraq produced chemical weapons. The BBB's don't like the idea that the Iraqis might be guilty. BBB "You sold the Iraqi's the means to produce extremely nasty powder mustard gas you villain!" UK Supplier "Actually, I sold them the means to purify water. Acceptable drinking water is a human right don't you know?" Unfortunately the plant that produced most of the mustard gas used against the Iranians and Halabja is in Falluja. It was originally sold on to produce chlorine. Absolutely nothing wrong with selling the Iraqi's the means to purify water. The fact that they then used it for other things as well is hardly the fault of the supplier - and there's the rub... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 You no doubt remember that the Matrix Churchill trial collapsed because Alan Clark revealed that the British government had for many years been covertly helping British firms export military and defence related equipment to the regime in Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Then they weren't very good at it because the vast majority was Eastern Block. I suppose it all comes down to price in the end. Matrix Churchill - wasn't when they changed the rules around arms exports to Iraq without telling anyone because of the outcry that would ensue? Didn't Thatcher lie to parliament over the issue to cover her arse? I may have this wrong but weren't the Conservative administration desperate to re-arm Iraq when the fracas with Iran ended? Like the chlorine plant in Falluja wasn't it just machinery that could have been used to make munitions? Let's put a new perspective on things. Thatcher's disastrous and short-sighted policies caused the deaths of 255 UK service personnel in the Falklands. They haven't reached that yet in Iraq, although it's probably close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Matrix Churchill - wasn't when they changed the rules around arms exports to Iraq without telling anyone because of the outcry that would ensue? Didn't Thatcher lie to parliament over the issue to cover her arse? I may have this wrong but weren't the Conservative administration desperate to re-arm Iraq when the fracas with Iran ended? Like the chlorine plant in Falluja wasn't it just machinery that could have been used to make munitions? It would be disingenuous and silly for anyone to pretend that there was ever any doubt what the British exports to Iraq were intended for. At the Scott Inquiry it emerged that the MOD deliberately ignored intelligence and media reports that military exports to Britain's friends in Jordan were being diverted to Iraq in contravention of the export regulations. The British military and security industry backed the regime in Iraq because, at the time, there was money to be earned. IIRC Alan Clark was perfectly clear about that at the Matrix Churchill trial. It's really not good enough to blame one administration or another for the specifics of any government policy with respect to arms sales at any particular time. What went on with respect to Iraq was, for example, ultimately no different in style from the breach of embargoes against Uganda during the Callaghan - Wilson era. No different in style from the PM Blair authorizing the export to Zimbabwe of parts for military aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 It's really not good enough to blame one administration or another for the specifics of any government policy with respect to arms sales at any particular time. What went on with respect to Iraq was, for example, ultimately no different in style from the breach of embargoes against Uganda during the Callaghan - Wilson era. No different in style from the PM Blair authorizing the export to Zimbabwe of parts for military aircraft. "It's really not good enough etc etc etc" - what a strange choice of words. I quite agree that all administrations have been at it but as you so rightly point out that's the world we live in. British troops have been shot at by British kit for years, it's not exactly "news" nor unique to Iraq. So I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. At the Scott Inquiry it emerged that the MOD deliberately ignored intelligence and media reports that military exports to Britain's friends in Jordan were being diverted to Iraq in contravention of the export regulations. Strange but true I've met the King of Jordan. All I remember of him was how short he was. His missus, however, was an absolute cream cracker! A lot taller than him as well. Tragically killed in a helicopter crash IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 British troops have been shot at by British kit for years, it's not exactly "news" nor unique to Iraq. ...but most of all, shot at by American kit and Americans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Too many pages of whining, so, sorry if this has been mentioned previously Don't you think its a bit 'well out of order' that they have slapped a 70 year secrecy order on the findings of 'that doctors' autopsy? The doctor, who 'killed himself' or had a 'heart attack' after he said something someone didn't like the sound of - right, these people are mental and they are running the country. Who will care in 70 years? Mores the point, why doesn't anyone care now? I agree with you thebees. I read that even his family will not be allowed to know the medical results. This, it was stated, to protect his children. This has the distinctive odour of Blair and his dodgy dossier cronies. And I can't understand why it isn't on the front pages of every newspaper in the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 And I can't understand why it isn't on the front pages of every newspaper in the land. Because it's not news. After Blair appeared even the rabidly anti-Labour Daily Wail had the "Footballer Has Sex With Someone Other Than His Wife" so-called "story" on the front page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 But it is news. People are still dying. It's way beyond any party politics. I do understand that Blair believed in what he was doing. Bush too. Saddam too. Hilter also. Self belief doesn't make any of it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Republican Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 None of that isn't new, all visionaries and military commanders and Generals all think that way, and have always done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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