La_Dolce_Vita Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I see a problem. If it is about racism then the majority (the racists) no matter that they are white Swedes should not be given the power to oppress others. It's wrong to oppress others, and it is that simple. You can't talk about democracy and applying democratic principles when you oppress others. Hypothetically, if the majority wanted non-whites, for example, to be removed from their country, does that mean they should be given it should happen? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I see a problem. If it is about racism then the majority (the racists) no matter that they are white Swedes should not be given the power to oppress others. It's wrong to oppress others, and it is that simple. You can't talk about democracy and applying democratic principles when you oppress others. Hypothetically, if the majority wanted non-whites, for example, to be removed from their country, does that mean they should be given it should happen? I think not. But there has been no racism here in any shape or fashion. Islam is not a race it is a religion. And secondly the Swiss have voted against certain buildings not having towers. I'm sure if you wanted to put a massive 17" penis onto of your religious building it of got voted down. People just need to stop getting so precious when the word Islam or Muslim comes into the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatopian Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 If it does become a race issue then its the Sweidsh nation exercising national consensus. Leave the Swedes out of it - they're not the racist bastards here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 But there has been no racism here in any shape or fashion. Islam is not a race it is a religion. And secondly the Swiss have voted against certain buildings not having towers. I'm sure if you wanted to put a massive 17" penis onto of your religious building it of got voted down. People just need to stop getting so precious when the word Islam or Muslim comes into the conversation. You did say that 'If this becomes a race issue...'. I don't the objection to the minarets is down to aethetics. It is about the perception of their culture being under attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 If it does become a race issue then its the Sweidsh nation exercising national consensus. Leave the Swedes out of it - they're not the racist bastards here! Exactly, what have you got against the Swedes, MilitaryDogOwner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 white Swedes should not be given the power to oppress others. I don't know about MDO, but it looks like you don't like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 If it does become a race issue then its the Sweidsh nation exercising national consensus. Leave the Swedes out of it - they're not the racist bastards here! I do apologise that was a mistype, I did indeed mean the Swiss. And do please explain how they qualify as racist bastards..exactly which race has been maligned here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 But there has been no racism here in any shape or fashion. Islam is not a race it is a religion. And secondly the Swiss have voted against certain buildings not having towers. I'm sure if you wanted to put a massive 17" penis onto of your religious building it of got voted down. People just need to stop getting so precious when the word Islam or Muslim comes into the conversation. You did say that 'If this becomes a race issue...'. I don't the objection to the minarets is down to aethetics. It is about the perception of their culture being under attack. Yet they have not banned the mosques them selves just the towers. So its not like they are trying to ban Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terse Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 As soon as they sprout, swedes should be squashed with carrots. Don't try to appease them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 white Swedes should not be given the power to oppress others. I don't know about MDO, but it looks like you don't like them. Should any people oppress another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Yet they have not banned the mosques them selves just the towers. So its not like they are trying to ban Islam.I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 white Swedes should not be given the power to oppress others. I don't know about MDO, but it looks like you don't like them. Should any people oppress another? Who has been oppressed? This is a city planning issue nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 LDV - I don't think you should be so surprised that people disagree with you when you start going on about oppression. Remember that you define oppression to include two people voluntarilary joining in an agreement where one person pays the other to do some work for them. On this particular issue I think it will , to a small extent, damage Swiss culture and standing. I've visited Switzerland intermittently and found it a highly conservative society. There are advantages to such a culture, but its reserve and intolerence of diversity can damage it - there are a billion or so Muslims and they are increasingly rich - if the Swiss wish to remain banker to the world disrespecting a major customer group seems an odd way to go. Switzerland's Muslim population is tiny, but the message this sends more broadly isn't good. Sure the Swiss voted for it - but that doesn't make something right or proper. Its a very minor thing which could have been dealt with at local level planning - if no-one objected in say a village in Vaud do the Gnomes of Zurich really have a right to veto it? Making it a issue of National imporance shows there are far bigger issues involved. Bet Rog is chuffed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollag Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Wonder what will happen if certain rich Islamic countries take offence and begin to remove their funds from Swiss banks? anyone for an about face? Does anyone know of an instance where spires on "christian " churches have been banned for "planning" reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 LDV - I don't think you should be so surprised that people disagree with you when you start going on about oppression. Remember that you define oppression to include two people voluntarilary joining in an agreement where one person pays the other to do some work for them. You know the issue I have. The prospective worker isn't really voluntary - they have to work. And this places them in a weak bargaining position vis-a-vis any prospective employer. They have to submit to an authority whilst employed and would want to remain employed as long as possibly to maintain security. Well yeah, I suppose it is oppression. Seems plain enough to me how it is too. But why do you question my comments on liberal democratic process in respect of this anyway? What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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