Lost Login Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I've never really been convinced by this idea. An argument could also be made that increasing the salary would also attract a fair amount of the greedy and the craven, and since they're exactly the kind of person who would most readily exploit populism to their own ends they'd stand a pretty fair chance of getting in as well. Secondly, looking at the example set by Westminster over the years, it's pretty clear that the professionals or those who may boast the most qualifications are not necessarily going to be the best people for the job, or even the 'sharpest'. All such expectations do are differentiate between amateur career politicians, and professional ones. I'm sure we'd get an influx of people who are much better at playing the political game, but I have reservations regarding the idea that we'd get better people. I am not wholly convinced either but people are presently complaining about the calibre of MHKs elected. I am not sure that can be changed but a low salary may stop some prospective good people standing as a low salary only encorages those who are curently on a lower income or the independently wealthy to stand. I have my own business in the finance industry and I have many friends and colleagues who even if they considered standing they could not afford their wives if they did! I have no real idea how to resolve that but we have tried the low pay approach and the electorate do not seem to be satisfied. Finally before people bleat I apprecaite that to many an MHK salary is not a low income especially if a minister however to a certain profile within our economy it certainly is. If you are in a secure job earning say £60k+ a year with a mortgage to pay would you pack that in for roughly £40k out of which you have to pay your expenses and knowing that in 5 years you may be kicked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 A benign and well-versed dictator for 2 years might just do the trick. Go on then, I'm not very busy for the next two years He did say, well versed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 If you are in a secure job earning say £60k+ a year with a mortgage to pay would you pack that in for roughly £40k out of which you have to pay your expenses and knowing that in 5 years you may be kicked out. I suspect, but don't know for sure, that in the first place a lot of people who enter politics don't give up their 'day jobs' and that in the second place the less idealistic of them are quite possibly thinking of future directorships and Qango jobs. In those circumstances they may not be so concerned about the salary as about the opportunities the job may open for them. There is also the issue of what value politicians place on 'power' itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 You could double their pay without additional expense by halving their number. Simples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 TB et al take note: it's called fucking LEADERSHIP! Leading from the front as they have is entirely appropriate and exactly right. Tynwald hang your heads in shame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 TB et al take note: it's called fucking LEADERSHIP! Leading from the front as they have is entirely appropriate and exactly right. Tynwald hang your heads in shame... It is probably easier to agree a cut when your salary is one of the largest of its types. Certainly pre cut the Irish Taoiseach got paid more than the UK prime minister and after the cut will still get €228 whilst minister get €202 and back benchers €92k. They also get expenses with the Taosiseach being in excess of €100k As for leadership it should be noted that Ireland have had a head start on us as they were badly effected by the consequences of the banking crisis which was Autumn 2008. Our Crisis, being the decrease in VAT was basically a year later but the finicial impact will only start to hit 50% now and fully in a year. They therefore have had a years head start if you like, in looking at and reacting to it. I certainly would like to see some more obvious signs that the action has and is going to be taken in the IoM to alleviate the short fall, the schools going back a day later is a sign of that. The steps being taken to save bus costs and supply teacher costs. However as it was dropped in the IoM unexpectedly by the UK I am much happier that they appear to be taking a considered approach on this rather than running around like headless chickens and it is around about budget time that I expect to hear about the major changes that will be put in place to cover the defecit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I certainly would like to see some more obvious signs that the action has and is going to be taken in the IoM to alleviate the short fall, the schools going back a day later is a sign of that. The steps being taken to save bus costs and supply teacher costs. However as it was dropped in the IoM unexpectedly by the UK I am much happier that they appear to be taking a considered approach on this rather than running around like headless chickens and it is around about budget time that I expect to hear about the major changes that will be put in place to cover the defecit Agreed. So what exactly are they doing? Why isn't the fearless independent Manx press beating a path to the doors of the "leadership" to pressure them into stating where they are on this and what plans they are putting into place to deal with it? Everyone I speak to complains that there is a paucity of information /action and yet it's been something like two months since the announcement. Plenty of time to draw up an "Action Plan". So where exactly is it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Agreed. So what exactly are they doing? Why isn't the fearless independent Manx press beating a path to the doors of the "leadership" to pressure them into stating where they are on this and what plans they are putting into place to deal with it? Everyone I speak to complains that there is a paucity of information /action and yet it's been something like two months since the announcement. Plenty of time to draw up an "Action Plan". So where exactly is it... Because presently everything is probably not yet decided. Reading the report about the budget, departments have until 6th Jan to put their budgets to treasury. From this Treasury prepares the formal budget and presumably goes back to each department with comments on their budget and confirmation f it will be met cut etc. Presumably departments are working on he basis that their budgets will cut by a certain amount. Now whilst all this is being done why should in be done in public, to me that would just be a distraction and presumably result in a lot of time being spent answering questions and responding to the public and businesses who would campaign against or for this and that cut. Let them get on with it and we will know the answer in February I also do not think a three or four month time scale is unreasonable and as I say I would prefer a considered response to the knee jerk populist reaction you appear to be looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Plenty of time to draw up an "Action Plan". So where exactly is it... I also do not think a three or four month time scale is unreasonable and as I say I would prefer a considered response to the knee jerk populist reaction you appear to be looking for. Ooops! Well, a lot on here are taking the piss about the level of Gov activity, or rather the lack of it. However that may indicate they are going to execute a wellthought out plan rather than knee-jerk cuts. At least I hope so and they're not in headless-chicken mode. Never mind... Because presently everything is probably not yet decided. Reading the report about the budget, departments have until 6th Jan to put their budgets to treasury. From this Treasury prepares the formal budget and presumably goes back to each department with comments on their budget and confirmation if it will be met cut etc. Presumably departments are working on the basis that their budgets will cut by a certain amount. No prizes if you guess the key words there are "probably" and "presumably." In every management review I have ever been involved in the most common complaint the Indians make about bad management is "lack of communication/information". That's not "lack of action" as you no doubt realise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 In every management review I have ever been involved in the most common complaint the Indians make about bad management is "lack of communication/information". That's not "lack of action" as you no doubt realise... We the public though are not the Indians that is the the Government workers. Presumably in all the reviews you have done you did not communicate with the the outside world step by step but that is what you are aclling for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 We the public though are not the Indians that is the the Government workers. Presumably in all the reviews you have done you did not communicate with the the outside world step by step but that is what you are aclling for. The public are the paymasters. Are they getting what they pay for? Not in my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 You could double their pay without additional expense by halving their number. Simples I agree Tugger It's been stated many times that we have far too many MHK's, MLC's etc in comparison to the number of MP's across who are accountable for more than 80k of people. A thinning out of MHK's has long been overdue, but I also agree with LL in that those who are left, should see an increase in their salaries. How they reduce the numbers might require some difficult decisions to be made and the old boys club would be costly to them all, especially if they're not up to it, as someone has to be accountable and I doubt if they'd do their mates jobs as well and carry the can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I've never really been convinced by this idea. An argument could also be made that increasing the salary would also attract a fair amount of the greedy and the craven, and since they're exactly the kind of person who would most readily exploit populism to their own ends they'd stand a pretty fair chance of getting in as well. Secondly, looking at the example set by Westminster over the years, it's pretty clear that the professionals or those who may boast the most qualifications are not necessarily going to be the best people for the job, or even the 'sharpest'. All such expectations do are differentiate between amateur career politicians, and professional ones. I'm sure we'd get an influx of people who are much better at playing the political game, but I have reservations regarding the idea that we'd get better people. Exactly my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 As for leadership it should be noted that Ireland have had a head start on us as they were badly effected by the consequences of the banking crisis which was Autumn 2008. Our Crisis, being the decrease in VAT was basically a year later but the finicial impact will only start to hit 50% now and fully in a year. They therefore have had a years head start if you like, in looking at and reacting to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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