Islam4uk March Through Wootton Bassett

[jimbms]

I don not think the issue is mainly on the reason these people are marching but more of the choice of location designed, as one person has said to provoke the most reaction from the general public, had they opted to hold this march in central London I doubt they would have got anywhere near the reaction, so in one way they are akin to the BNP as in selecting a location for the march to cause the maximum reaction and press coverage and a strong possibility of a violent reaction which in a way makes them on par with the BNP.

[invader]

Religion not colour is the problem. All schools should ban any type of religious study there should be no religious schools. Schools should teach kids to be respectful of there fellow human and teach to a humanist point of view. What people do outside of that should be up to then but don't use religion as an excuse to hate or kill someone. The Christians say man was made in the image of God, NO man

has man his gods in his own image. It's all bloody fairy tales.

Discussions like these usually turn nasty with the liberals shouting racist to smoother a debate. Don,t they damm well realize that by doing this that resentment grows and the day of the backlash gets closer .

[La_Dolce_Vita]

These are religious people and they have a perspective on how things should be that rests on religion. But the reasons why they are out protesting and their choice of location is not necessarily about religion but simply about their opposition to the war.

 

so in one way they are akin to the BNP as in selecting a location for the march to cause the maximum reaction and press coverage and a strong possibility of a violent reaction which in a way makes them on par with the BNP.

But they are not like the BNP really, because they don't have their politics.

 

In an extreme example, how would we moralise on a group of people protesting about invasions and occupations at the scene of a mourning parade where the bodies of German soldiers who had been part of the invasion of Poland?

[P.K.]

P.K. - Maybe some do feel some relief for the same reasons as you mention, but what an ignorant attitude for them to have. Do they honestly believe that there is a fight that needs to be fought? And what fight is that? Britain versus Taliban? I don't think so.

 

Considering Britain's role in the world is more aggressor and meddler rather some poor nation on the defence then the need to fight means something else.

But I think it is extremely offensive of you (P.K.) to state that such people are killing on my behalf. It isn't true. The war isn't necessary, the deaths are not necessary, and I haven't asked anyone to kill on my behalf.

Yes it is. Do you vote? Pay taxes? You're as culpable for fielding the UK military as anyone else...

[La_Dolce_Vita]

No, I don't vote and I don't have a choice about payment of my taxes - I can't survive without paying taxes. In any case, whatever the military does it not done on MY behalf. The foreign policy is not determined with my interests at heart.

[P.K.]

No, I don't vote and I don't have a choice about payment of my taxes - I can't survive without paying taxes. In any case, whatever the military does it is not done on MY behalf. The foreign policy is not determined with my interests at heart.

Oh yes it is!

 

Oh no it isn't.....

 

Oh yes it is!

 

Oh no it isn't....

 

And so on.

 

Of course, should the Phantasians invade the UK all that would change...

[gazza]

These are religious people and they have a perspective on how things should be that rests on religion. But the reasons why they are out protesting and their choice of location is not necessarily about religion but simply about their opposition to the war.

 

so in one way they are akin to the BNP as in selecting a location for the march to cause the maximum reaction and press coverage and a strong possibility of a violent reaction which in a way makes them on par with the BNP.

But they are not like the BNP really, because they don't have their politics.

 

In an extreme example, how would we moralise on a group of people protesting about invasions and occupations at the scene of a mourning parade where the bodies of German soldiers who had been part of the invasion of Poland?

 

LDV they coulden give 2 shits about the war to be honest, Its just a good reason to make it look good.

they cant be botherd about it if there trying to turn the uk into a war zone.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Ok, it is done in my behalf in the sense that the government proclaims that the military actions are for my benefit and for my freedom etc. But that isn't the reality, respect of what their purpose really is. Afghanistan is not fought in my interest.

 

Anyway, aren't the Phantasians off the Neverending Story?

 

LDV they coulden give 2 shits about the war to be honest, Its just a good reason to make it look good.

they cant be botherd about it if there trying to turn the uk into a war zone.

For what purpose? And even if they didn't care, their arguments about it are sound. Someone has to challenge the moral hypocrisy of the British (and American) people. It isn't going to come through the media.

 

I do think, however, that people in British are so deluded about the war, have no idea how to take a moral stand on matters such as this, and cannot separate simply mourning someone's death and distancing themselves from all the military tradition, jingoism and values associated with the Armed Forces. I simply think that this group have shot themselves in the foot by tackling the ignorant in a not very enlightening way.

[jimbms]

so in one way they are akin to the BNP as in selecting a location for the march to cause the maximum reaction and press coverage and a strong possibility of a violent reaction which in a way makes them on par with the BNP.

But they are not like the BNP really, because they don't have their politics.

God you are thick at times, I never said they had the same policy, I said their views and choice of this march was designed to stir hatred in the same way as the BNP do it, in that way the methodoligy is the same and just as biggoted and racist and before you comment I class intollerence of other people because of their beliefs as racist just as Rog is racist and biggoted towards mulims. Nobody is denying them the right to march in this democracy, just asking that they do so with the respect of the feelings of the majority and people of that town in which they wish to disrupt without consent.

[gazza]

Ok, it is done in my behalf in the sense that the government proclaims that the military actions are for my benefit and for my freedom etc. But that isn't the reality, respect of what their purpose really is. Afghanistan is not fought in my interest.

 

Anyway, aren't the Phantasians off the Neverending Story?

 

LDV they coulden give 2 shits about the war to be honest, Its just a good reason to make it look good.

they cant be botherd about it if there trying to turn the uk into a war zone.

For what purpose? And even if they didn't care, their arguments about it are sound. Someone has to challenge the moral hypocrisy of the British (and American) people. It isn't going to come through the media.

 

I do think, however, that people in British are so deluded about the war, have no idea how to take a moral stand on matters such as this, and cannot separate simply mourning someone's death and distancing themselves from all the military tradition, jingoism and values associated with the Armed Forces. I simply think that this group have shot themselves in the foot by tackling the ignorant in a not very enlightening way.

 

But there only using that to get more people to join them, and when they have plenty of people it will be all out war on the uk,

 

i really think in the next 10 years the uk will be in the middle of a civil war if more groups like this are allowed to carry on. and because they have the same views on them over the war u defend them and say well they have good views. the diffrence is LDV you prob do care while they dont, and thats the sort of person they hope to attract

My only worry is which side will the irish will join.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

God you are thick at times

You're not demonstrating how I am being stupid.

I never said they had the same policy, I said their views and choice of this march was designed to stir hatred in the same way as the BNP do it

Not at all.

 

The BNP stir up hatred by using patriotic, racist, nationalistic, xenophobic arguments to win over the ignorant and create hatred against particular people in society.

The protesters have just supposedly in that way the methodoligy is the same (because it is the politicians who have been most vocal in the media, so who is to know) stirred up hatred as a result of their efforts to try and demonstrate how little we care about the war in Afghanistan and what is going on there by wanting to demonstrating at the venue where people quite ridiculously make efforts to display how much they care for only those British people who died.

...and just as biggoted and racist

Do you know what those words mean? How does bigotry and racism enter into their proposed protest?

and before you comment I class intollerence of other people because of their beliefs as racist just as Rog is racist and biggoted towards mulims.

Firstly, if this is an issue about intolerance then it might be demonstrated by stopping the march. If you are tolerant of others beliefs then why do you disagree with the protest at this location? It isn't a funeral. It is national repatriation of dead soldiers where people honour the dead. Quite a different thing.

Nobody is denying them the right to march in this democracy, just asking that they do so with the respect of the feelings of the majority and people of that town in which they wish to disrupt without consent.

Your issue with this is not about intolerance but respect. But it is precisely the point of the protest that these Muslims want to try and change the feelings by asking them to think about the war, its purpose, and who it affects. It is again precisely the point that maybe the majority have got it wrong in how they give thought to foreign policy and how they think about the causes that these people die for.

[manshimajin]

Whilst AT makes an excellent point about democratic rights in the UK, with democracy comes a degree of responsibility to use it in ways that don't provoke others unecessarily. Why pick on a small town in Wiltshire to raise public concern about the war in Afghanistan? Clearly any truly serious and thoughtful demonstrator would understood not to on pick on a highly sensitive and emotion laden location.

 

The sort of logic of holding this march in Wootton Basset makes me assume that these same people would not object at all to a BNP march through Bradford or a Zionist march in Barnsley to protest about the murder of Jews caused by Palestinian rockets fired into Israel.

 

IMO it is just bad taste and lacking in cultural and ethnic sensitivity.

[A J Graham]

This march is intended as an insult to British servicemen that will provoke anger and add to the manufactured sense of grievance that Muslims constantly complain about.

 

One answer to the quandary is to ensure that the opposite of what the marchers intend actually takes place: let the march go ahead; let the streets be lined with silent, unaggressive citizens with banners making the following points:

 

We deplore what you say but defend your right to say it

 

All honour to our servicemen who died to protect your free speech

 

Democracy does not silence opponents

 

 

In this way, our servicemen are honoured, British values are defended and the wind is taken out of the marchers' sails by denying them what they most desire - aggression and hostility.

[theman]

According to the Islam4UK website, Islamic domination of the UK is not an if but a when. Apparently Islam was sent to cleanse the British Isle and bring the light of purity.

 

I'm sorry but that sounds like the sort of shite that short fella from Germany used to spout during the war.

 

Apparently we will all bow down before the dominace of Islam and accept Sha'ia law as the one true law. Unfortunately as a legal system its kinda one tracked...

 

Mugging...death.

 

Theft...dismemberment.

 

Rape...death.

 

Adultery...death.

 

Looking at porn/partaking in porn...you guessed it...death.

 

Another look at the website reveals more of the mindset of these people...

 

From the "Non-Muslim" section various titles can be found:

 

The Death of the Adult Industry Under the Shari'ah

Baseless British Values

British Legal System Vs Shari'ah

Are you as intelligent as you think?

Why Hindus Should Embrace Islam

 

 

thats the way to sort the Overpopulation

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Whilst AT makes an excellent point about democratic rights in the UK, with democracy comes a degree of responsibility to use it in ways that don't provoke others unecessarily

I disagree. The use of one's liberty to march at such a location and at such an event does not impinge on the liberty of others.

No repatriation march is being gatecrashed by the Muslim protesters. Rather they are simply putting on a mock mourning parade that focuses on the deaths of those the British public do not appear to care about AT ALL. I see no problem with that.

Why pick on a small town in Wiltshire to raise public concern about the war in Afghanistan? Clearly any truly serious and thoughtful demonstrator would understood not to on pick on a highly sensitive and emotion laden location.

Because it is precisely the location where the public's hypocrisy and immorality is on show and needs ridiculing. Nevertheless, I do agree that it is unproductive. Because I think it would take more than placards and imagery to make people realise this.

The sort of logic of holding this march in Wootton Basset makes me assume that these same people would not object at all to a BNP march through Bradford or a Zionist march in Barnsley to protest about the murder of Jews caused by Palestinian rockets fired into Israel.

I do not grasp the logic that you have noticed. Please explain.

IMO it is just bad taste and lacking in cultural and ethnic sensitivity.

Fuck bad taste. It's bad taste that we sit back and allow such a war to continue. It's bad taste to honour those who have died in Afghanistan with sentiments that fit around noble causes and seeing their deaths as necessary. Very bad taste.

 

And I have little care for cultural and ethnic sensitivities that underpin support for these conflicts. If our culture is embodied by supporting the use of violence with little question to the costs in lives and then honouring the military that carried out such actions then I think we are in need of having such sensitivies exposed and criticised.

 

A J Graham

This march is intended as an insult to British servicemen

No, it isn't. Please explain how it is, if you really think so.

We deplore what you say but defend your right to say it

 

All honour to our servicemen who died to protect your free speech

 

Democracy does not silence opponents

Absolutely. And maybe in response to the middle placard I'll start running about screaming about the Taliban are going to invade.