Islam4uk March Through Wootton Bassett

[Bananaman]

Let the daft sods have their march.

 

Line the streets with well wishers and supporters.

 

Let the buggers have the backlash they desire. Hopefully then we could come to some agreement about what is right and what is so very wrong.

 

Then shout the bastards down for Luton and St Albans not having a taxi service at all that day.

 

 

Jebus! Think of the bigger picture.

 

Me!

 

 

I ain't walking for no MoFoIbrahimistmohamadarse religion. Ya get?

 

Word!

[MilitantDogOwner]

LDV, you disgust me. You are loathsome creature, devoid of sense of honour. You cannot begin to understand the outrage this march has caused amongst the Service community.

 

What more is there to say on that matter.

 

I've been told by some friends still in the Service that all military personel have been "instructed" not to attend the march as to not inflame an already delicate situation.

 

What that really means is the brass don't want 10,000 squaddies lining the march with basball bats and sharp sticks to "support" the march.

 

It was also good to hear about the 6 or 7 muslim "hecklers" in Leeds getting their just deserts for shouting "British soldiers are baby killers" and "All British soldier deserve to die". Got to love that freedom of speech.

[manshimajin]

Why pick on a small town in Wiltshire to raise public concern about the war in Afghanistan? Clearly any truly serious and thoughtful demonstrator would understood not to on pick on a highly sensitive and emotion laden location.

Because it is precisely the location where the public's hypocrisy and immorality is on show and needs ridiculing. Nevertheless, I do agree that it is unproductive. Because I think it would take more than placards and imagery to make people realise this.

The sort of logic of holding this march in Wootton Basset makes me assume that these same people would not object at all to a BNP march through Bradford or a Zionist march in Barnsley to protest about the murder of Jews caused by Palestinian rockets fired into Israel.

I do not grasp the logic that you have noticed. Please explain.

IMO it is just bad taste and lacking in cultural and ethnic sensitivity.

Fuck bad taste.

If you cannot see the connection LDV you are blind s a bat...it is perfectly logical - you want the right to march to provoke others - then others must have the same right to march to provoke you...really mature behaviour.

 

I find your comments truly disappointing as they reflect that point in the circle where extreme right philosophies and extreme left philosophies meet.

 

Maybe your last comment above summarises your position perfectly.

[Albert Tatlock]

This march is intended as an insult to British servicemen that will provoke anger and add to the manufactured sense of grievance that Muslims constantly complain about.

 

One answer to the quandary is to ensure that the opposite of what the marchers intend actually takes place: let the march go ahead; let the streets be lined with silent, unaggressive citizens with banners making the following points:

 

We deplore what you say but defend your right to say it

 

All honour to our servicemen who died to protect your free speech

 

Democracy does not silence opponents

 

 

In this way, our servicemen are honoured, British values are defended and the wind is taken out of the marchers' sails by denying them what they most desire - aggression and hostility.

Wholeheartly agree with that approach. Any other approach undermines the UK and what is supposedly stands for, both here, and in its operations abroad.

 

It is the British public that have made Wootton Bassett a focal point - and why? - because Tony Brown, Gordon Brown et al haven't the decency to turn up to give these lads a respected and decent return and send off. These public turn-outs at Wootten Bassett actually represent two things IMO: a frustration and anger with the British establishment IMO, and provide that decency and respect that 99% of British people know the HM forces deserve for what they are being expected to do and die for, yet which is ignored by government other than reading out names in parliament.

 

History most usually changes at focal points.

[Pierrot Lunaire]

It is the British public that have made Wootton Bassett a focal point - and why? - because Tony Brown, Gordon Brown et al haven't the decency to turn up to give these lads a respected and decent return and send off.

I don't think even Voltaire would blame the Chief Minister for that one. Especially after the vat clawback.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

LDV, you disgust me. You are loathsome creature, devoid of sense of honour. You cannot begin to understand the outrage this march has caused amongst the Service community

If I have disgusted then it is only your poor values and understanding that I think are to blame. But you know I don't share you foolish ideas about the military, the public relationship with the military, and how the military is used. I wonder whether I actually give more a shit about how things really work than you.

As for honour, well...I won't gain that from supporting these wars and cheering on British servicemen, will I?

 

I can understand that it has caused outrage. But then there are many, many thousands who are now outraged by this. It is very unfortunate to see so much opposition. And the worst kinds come from the product of living in an undemocratic such as Britain that so many actually call for the expulsion of these Muslims and the banning of the march by the government, simply based on this march.

 

I think more outrageous and disgusting things have been said in response to the march proposition, by politicians and the public. There is so much bullshit all wrapped up in patriotic talk and so much racism relating to these Muslims. If anything it is a wake up call to the poor state of things in the UK. Maybe Britain deserves a far rougher war to awaken the senses and really drive a good message home. (Not that I would really want that).

 

Are people not allowed to be offended in 'democratic' Britain? Have people become so hopelessly wrapped up in all the hollow traditions and fake open displays of concern for those in the military, which are really just kneejerk responses to jingoism, that any attempt to criticise or expose such views is met with such hatred?

I think the day people actually DO care about the people in the military is the day they do away with such notions, the day they stop pretending to open their hearts at death parades, and actually campaign for or against the wars that are fought.

 

I've been told by some friends still in the Service that all military personel have been "instructed" not to attend the march as to not inflame an already delicate situation.

What that really means is the brass don't want 10,000 squaddies lining the march with basball bats and sharp sticks to "support" the march.

No, they wouldn't that and it wouldn't be advisable either. No need for violence and no excuse for it.

 

It was also good to hear about the 6 or 7 muslim "hecklers" in Leeds getting their just deserts for shouting "British soldiers are baby killers" and "All British soldier deserve to die". Got to love that freedom of speech.

Well it clearly isn't freedom of speech. They were prosecuted. Well although they don't deserve to die, which servicemen are the baby killers? They must be a few of them?

[MilitantDogOwner]

I've been told by some friends still in the Service that all military personel have been "instructed" not to attend the march as to not inflame an already delicate situation.

What that really means is the brass don't want 10,000 squaddies lining the march with basball bats and sharp sticks to "support" the march.

No, they wouldn't that and it wouldn't be advisable either. No need for violence and no excuse for it.

 

Clearly you have never felt strongly enough about anything. Well maybe in your one bed room bedsit fuming about "The Man" oppressing your brother and sister revolutionaries.

 

It was also good to hear about the 6 or 7 muslim "hecklers" in Leeds getting their just deserts for shouting "British soldiers are baby killers" and "All British soldier deserve to die". Got to love that freedom of speech.

Well it clearly isn't freedom of speech. They were prosecuted. Well although they don't deserve to die, which servicemen are the baby killers? They must be a few of them?

 

I'd invite you to travel to any Armed Forces base in the land and start acusing those men and women as being baby killers. Be interesting to see how you get on.

 

I understand that you have no respect for anyone in a uniform (excpet maybe your fellow KFC workers), but thats okay. You are just one, sad little revolutionary wannabe. I'm part of a family that is hundreds of thousands strong. And we see this march as a slight against our fallen brothers and sisters. But I don't expect you to understand that.

[thebees]

Reminds me of the IRA catholic/protestant marches that used to go on. Gordon Brown is a fuckwit, it is not abhorrent it's just controversial and childish, not unlike all the rest of the religious crap that is spouted by 'religious people', who are no more Christian than 'fly to the moon', un-Christian like religious people make me puke and there are f'in millions of them going to church EVERY week - twats! /spit

[Rog]

By LDV ---

 

As for honour, well...I won't gain that from supporting these wars and cheering on British servicemen, will I?

 

I can understand people being appalled at what Blair set in motion, but to condemn brave men who put their lives on the line for Britain in acting loyally is beneath contempt.

 

Slag off Blair, Brown, Bush, whoever, ---- but do not ever slag off the incredibly brave men and women who get stuck with the job that our dreadful politicians lumber them with.

 

I’ve read comments on this thread about the proposed demonstration by a group of Islamic activists against what the UK is doing, a demonstration that is proposed in a manner that is grossly insulting to the majority of the British population and grossly insulting to the memory of our brave armed services people.

 

One thing that runs through all the comments is the staggering lack of understanding about Islam and how actions within the Muslim community are interpreted.

 

Given that most comments do come from within a population who don’t have the slightest inkling of what Islam is, what it represents, what it’s aims are, or the Muslim mindset is and how it differs so radically from that of the average Westerner, it’s hardly surprising.

 

LDV, I can usually at least have a degree of sympathy (if disagreement) with your views, but on this issue you are not just in the outfield, you’re on a different fucking planet.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

If you cannot see the connection LDV you are blind s a bat...it is perfectly logical - you want the right to march to provoke others - then others must have the same right to march to provoke you...really mature behaviour.

Maturity doesn't even enter into this debate. Just consider the spectacle of strangers standing to honour those who have died in Afghanistan - that's immature when you consider that no thought is spared to those innocent Afghans who have had this war come to them. And it is immature when so little support is given those people in the forces by working to end the war.

 

And a BNP march and a march such as this do not really equate to the same thing. I explained why.

 

I find your comments truly disappointing as they reflect that point in the circle where extreme right philosophies and extreme left philosophies meet.

 

Maybe your last comment above summarises your position perfectly.

The circle analogy is not very illuminating. But please explain. As for bad taste, I'd have to ask if all of a sudden the actions of people have to be set according to what is CONSIDERED good taste. I think it is very, very poor taste to witness how people respond to issues relating to the military and the war. A march such as this is rather insignificant in terms of bad taste. Yet it is quite inconceivable that honouring and feigning genuine concern for dead soldiers can be considered in such a way.

It can be considered poor taste to offend people, but we are allowed to offend others, especially when they hold bad values and attitudes to things.

The only problem here is that it is a Muslim group who are offending and whatever their motivation, their efforts to at least awaken the British public to immorality of the war will fall under deaf ears through the attempt to criticise seemingly sacred values.

[Rog]

If you cannot see the connection LDV you are blind s a bat...it is perfectly logical - you want the right to march to provoke others - then others must have the same right to march to provoke you...really mature behaviour.

Maturity doesn't even enter into this debate. Just consider the spectacle of strangers standing to honour those who have died in Afghanistan - that's immature when you consider that no thought is spared to those innocent Afghans who have had this war come to them. And it is immature when so little support is given those people in the forces by working to end the war.

 

And a BNP march and a march such as this do not really equate to the same thing. I explained why.

 

I find your comments truly disappointing as they reflect that point in the circle where extreme right philosophies and extreme left philosophies meet.

 

Maybe your last comment above summarises your position perfectly.

The circle analogy is not very illuminating. But please explain. As for bad taste, I'd have to ask if all of a sudden the actions of people have to be set according to what is CONSIDERED good taste. I think it is very, very poor taste to witness how people respond to issues relating to the military and the war. A march such as this is rather insignificant in terms of bad taste. Yet it is quite inconceivable that honouring and feigning genuine concern for dead soldiers can be considered in such a way.

It can be considered poor taste to offend people, but we are allowed to offend others, especially when they hold bad values and attitudes to things.

The only problem here is that it is a Muslim group who are offending and whatever their motivation, their efforts to at least awaken the British public to immorality of the war will fall under deaf ears through the attempt to criticise seemingly sacred values.

 

My God, you just don't get it do you LDV?

 

It’s not a case of glorifying the war per se, it’s a case of people wanting to show genuine respect for those who have the dirty end of a dirty stick and who have bravely gone to a foreign land and in the face of an ungrateful shower of God knows what done their patriotic duty.

 

It’s also to send a message to the relatives of those who have died that the grass roots population want to show that they appreciate just what has been done in their name.

 

It’s also to send a message to the many more who have not been killed but terribly injured by a bunch of savages that although those injured can not have the recognition of the nation of their bravery made obvious, it is nonetheless there.

 

It’s not glorifying war. It’s glorifying bravery and patriotism.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Clearly you have never felt strongly enough about anything. Well maybe in your one bed room bedsit fuming about "The Man" oppressing your brother and sister revolutionaries.

To not be able to control myself and then become violent? No, I haven't. But it would end in someone going to prison.

 

At the moment I am fuming more at the incredibly ridiculous situation of people calling for a ban on a march because it will offend those all too ready to be offended for the sake of being patriotic.

 

I'd invite you to travel to any Armed Forces base in the land and start acusing those men and women as being baby killers. Be interesting to see how you get on.

 

I understand that you have no respect for anyone in a uniform (excpet maybe your fellow KFC workers), but thats okay. You are just one, sad little revolutionary wannabe. I'm part of a family that is hundreds of thousands strong. And we see this march as a slight against our fallen brothers and sisters. But I don't expect you to understand that.

I wouldn't find it INTERESTING, but I can expect what would happen. What if I spoke to one of those servicemen who did actually kill an innocent in Afghanistan and I made such an accusation? Would the result be any different?

 

I do not accord anyone in a government uniform any level of respect of over anyone else. I have no reason to. But I have a lot more respect for those who have to fight in these wars that you profess to. Certainly when you support and hold to all the public attitudes and propagandised ideas surrounding the military. You seem to be someone who really wants to believe that being in the Armed Forces is something honourable and something that should be deemed worthy of a respect greater than others. But I see no more honour in those fighting in Afghanistan than I see German soldiers invading Poland, or Israeli armed forces bombing Lebanon, etc. etc. I judge such things on the actions taken.

 

Besides, you have no idea of the bonds that have formed whilst working for Kentucky Fried Chicken. The friendships and love in our shop are worth far more your comradery. It's not easy to make finger lickin' chicken.

[Rog]

Besides, you have no idea of the bonds that have formed whilst working for Kentucky Fried Chicken. The friendships and love in our shop are worth far more your comradery. It's not easy to make finger lickin' chicken.

 

I had to read that several times.

 

I have only one comment.

 

OMFG.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

but do not ever slag off the incredibly brave men and women who get stuck with the job that our dreadful politicians lumber them with.

Depends what you mean by slagging off. At the moment we live in a society that affords those in the Armed Forces with a level of respect that exceeds others in society - which is just nuts. I take into account that they don't get a chance to choose where they are sent and that share the morals as the public when it comes to such wars as this one. Their responsibility is somewhat limited. But they have some responsibility. They just need to be sent home.

 

One thing that runs through all the comments is the staggering lack of understanding about Islam and how actions within the Muslim community are interpreted.

But we don't need to have much understanding on this particular issue. We all know how despicable Islam is and certainly those who of this group who advocate all sorts of proposterous and other quite concerning actions in the country.

 

But on this issue I have no problem with them marching. Offending the sensibilities of those who cannot see through their own patriotism and jingoism is not cause enough to ban them.

 

it’s a case of people wanting to show genuine respect for those who have the dirty end of a dirty stick and who have bravely gone to a foreign land and in the face of an ungrateful shower of God knows what done their patriotic duty.

But it doesn't stand in a good light when such respect is offered with absolutely no recognition to those who had no choices whatsoever when it came to participating in this conflict - the Afghan civilians. They had the shittiest stick. But nobody cares. How dare we afford those who have died as part of a belligerent nation's Armed Forces with talk of honour and freedom and utterly ignore the situation for those civilians in Afghanistan.

 

It’s also to send a message to the relatives of those who have died that the grass roots population want to show that they appreciate just what has been done in their name.

Appreciate what? I think the truth is better. Rather to relying on the same old lie that attaches worth to such deaths by claiming their deaths were made in the interests of the country for freedom, why not just be honest with ourselves and recognise that they didn't need to die, that nobody really gives a shit about a war we don't know much about. And that we're simpy offering our thoughts because it is supposedly OUR patriotic duty to do so.

 

It’s also to send a message to the many more who have not been killed but terribly injured by a bunch of savages

Savages? Well, if you look at Britain's decision to go to war and its continuing presence in light of the morality that we westerners profess to uphold then such hypocrisy would no doubt appear savage to those at the end of swift airstrike. Britain is not a nation we could call civilised by its foreign policy.

 

It’s not glorifying war. It’s glorifying bravery and patriotism

And such glorification leads to the glorification or jingoism seen in society, i.e. the indifference of the public.

[Rog]

but do not ever slag off the incredibly brave men and women who get stuck with the job that our dreadful politicians lumber them with.

Depends what you mean by slagging off. At the moment we live in a society that affords those in the Armed Forces with a level of respect that exceeds others in society - which is just nuts. I take into account that they don't get a chance to choose where they are sent and that share the morals as the public when it comes to such wars as this one. Their responsibility is somewhat limited. But they have some responsibility. They just need to be sent home.

 

One thing that runs through all the comments is the staggering lack of understanding about Islam and how actions within the Muslim community are interpreted.

But we don't need to have much understanding on this particular issue. We all know how despicable Islam is and certainly those who of this group who advocate all sorts of proposterous and other quite concerning actions in the country.

 

But on this issue I have no problem with them marching. Offending the sensibilities of those who cannot see through their own patriotism and jingoism is not cause enough to ban them.

 

it’s a case of people wanting to show genuine respect for those who have the dirty end of a dirty stick and who have bravely gone to a foreign land and in the face of an ungrateful shower of God knows what done their patriotic duty.

But it doesn't stand in a good light when such respect is offered with absolutely no recognition to those who had no choices whatsoever when it came to participating in this conflict - the Afghan civilians. They had the shittiest stick. But nobody cares. How dare we afford those who have died as part of a belligerent nation's Armed Forces with talk of honour and freedom and utterly ignore the situation for those civilians in Afghanistan.

 

It’s also to send a message to the relatives of those who have died that the grass roots population want to show that they appreciate just what has been done in their name.

Appreciate what? I think the truth is better. Rather to relying on the same old lie that attaches worth to such deaths by claiming their deaths were made in the interests of the country for freedom, why not just be honest with ourselves and recognise that they didn't need to die, that nobody really gives a shit about a war we don't know much about. And that we're simpy offering our thoughts because it is supposedly OUR patriotic duty to do so.

 

It’s also to send a message to the many more who have not been killed but terribly injured by a bunch of savages

Savages? Well, if you look at Britain's decision to go to war and its continuing presence in light of the morality that we westerners profess to uphold then such hypocrisy would no doubt appear savage to those at the end of swift airstrike. Britain is not a nation we could call civilised by its foreign policy.

 

It’s not glorifying war. It’s glorifying bravery and patriotism

And such glorification leads to the glorification or jingoism seen in society, i.e. the indifference of the public.

 

 

It takes all sorts to make a world.