Islam4uk March Through Wootton Bassett

[jimbms]

there is nothing I do in my life that would effect the people of another country and nor would I ever try to change the way other nations go about there way of life, as I say it's a simple rule leave me and my family alone and I will leave you alone.

Although your basic sentiment is right I do beg to differ, for years we have all bought products that due to methods of previous manufacture have meant people in other countries have been starved and treated as slaves, we have supported goods being packaged in a way that polluted the earth and uses up precious fossil fuels, we have supported organisations like KFC and McShites who have not only destroyed other nations environments and been guilty of animal cruelty just for commercial profit, but had such an impact on our lifestyle that they are now causing a serious impact on our health services, governments we have freely elected have sent our people into wars mainly to maintain control over sources of fuel (no matter what arguments you put, look at the facts USA and UK have not strongly been involved in any conflict since Korea/Vietnam that the Nation concerned does not have oil, coal or a gas/gasline in it, and before you say it yes Falklands was started 24hrs after Exxon found a major oil field off South Georgia), so as you see and as others have said we all in a way are guilty of bringing the world to the state it is in now. But I still reserve the right to state these arsehols should not be allowed to march.

[bluenose 52]

there is nothing I do in my life that would effect the people of another country and nor would I ever try to change the way other nations go about there way of life, as I say it's a simple rule leave me and my family alone and I will leave you alone.

 

What happens in Britain - what British governments do on your behalf inevitably has a significant impact on what happens to other people in other parts of the world. And the policies of British govts since hundreds of years. If you believe in democratic politics then you can not divorce yourself from the implications and responsibilities of government policies. Which ever party is in power they are your govt. They are you. If something bad happens to someone else because of a British policy then you (we all - even on the IOM) share a degree of that responsibility.

 

I'm starting to sound like Tom Vague. No bad thing

 

ETA: read and understood China.

As I said in an earlier post I dont do politics as they are all as bad as one another, and do you honestly believe that the decision makers of this country do things on and for your behalf, I for one do not feel any responsibility for what this government policies are, I just look after my own and at least that way I know where I am at. Simple, just like me.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

But I still reserve the right to state these arsehols should not be allowed to march.

But who is justified in actually stopping them? (I very much agree with the rest of your post, by the way)

 

...I for one do not feel any responsibility for what this government policies are, I just look after my own and at least that way I know where I am at. Simple, just like me.

I very much doubt you are simple and don't know much about politics.

 

Though I would say that we are all responsible for what the UK forces are doing in the country. Many vote and actively support the government (or the Island's government) and by extension offer them a legitimacy in the actions in terms of foreign policy. And those who don't vote (like me) have a level of responsibility because we don't seeks make the most effort that we can to try and stop it.

[Albert Tatlock]

If something bad happens to someone else because of a British policy then you (we all - even on the IOM) share a degree of that responsibility.

I would disagree quite strongly with that (the IOM bit anyway). No vote = no voice = no culpability/responsibility IMO.

 

Neither is allowing Manx citizens to join the British forces an influencing factor on UK foreign policy, nor does it imply an acceptance of UK foreign policy by the Isle of Man. People are entitled to their opinions of course, and have them - but they are only opinions, but they are nothing more than that if you live here and have no vote in the UK.

 

Sort of - 'no annihilation without representation'.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

The Isle of Man, given its constitutional position as a Crown Dependency that pay towards the War (Defence) costs of the British government certainly shares a burden of responsibility that filters down to those who support the Manx government.

[pongo]

If something bad happens to someone else because of a British policy then you (we all - even on the IOM) share a degree of that responsibility.

I would disagree quite strongly with that (the IOM bit anyway). No vote = no voice = no culpability/responsibility IMO.

 

It is by our own choice that we have no democratic influence over foreign policy because it is by our own choice that we choose the system of semi detached govt which we have here. By supporting the system of govt which the IOM has we are by default agreeing to support what ever is done by the Crown. We are choosing to have no say. Which is the same as agreeing with the policy.

 

Similar to our relationship with the EU.

[Albert Tatlock]

The Isle of Man, given its constitutional position as a Crown Dependency that pay towards the War (Defence) costs of the British government certainly shares a burden of responsibility that filters down to those who support the Manx government.

These monies (the Imperial Contribution) go towards defence (our defence) and overseas representation (our use of consulates etc.) and have a very long history going back hundreds of years. It's all down to the Dukes of Atholl.

 

It certainly does not imply any acceptance or support of particular foreign policies of the UK government of the day.

[P.K.]

You are being spoon fed on propaganda and wishful thinking PK, and you are eating it up IMO. No one likes to lose, but that's the way this will go, against an often: invisible, portable, cross-border enemy whose only borders are defined by a religious book.

You are being spoon fed on propaganda and wishful thinking by the BBB's Albert and you are eating it up IMHO.

 

If the REGION remains stable - that's a victory. If it takes NATO forces to remain there to do it then so be it. That's what NATO is for.

[bluenose 52]

But I still reserve the right to state these arsehols should not be allowed to march.

But who is justified in actually stopping them? (I very much agree with the rest of your post, by the way)

 

...I for one do not feel any responsibility for what this government policies are, I just look after my own and at least that way I know where I am at. Simple, just like me.

I very much doubt you are simple and don't know much about politics.

 

Though I would say that we are all responsible for what the UK forces are doing in the country. Many vote and actively support the government (or the Island's government) and by extension offer them a legitimacy in the actions in terms of foreign policy. And those who don't vote (like me) have a level of responsibility because we don't seeks make the most effort that we can to try and stop it.

When I say simple I mean in my train of thought, look the people of the world who have nothing want some, the people who have everything want more, a majority off the worlds resources are taken by the 1st and 2nd world ( the west ) but the majority of the world live in the 3rd world so if they start getting a fair chunk of the worlds resources the west would start losing their quality of life, so we will always stop them getting what they want, its just a fact of life the most powerful will survive at any cost, and nothing you or I do will stop it, so that is why I do what I can do and that is to make sure my family and friends are looked after. Simple

[Freggyragh]

I'd like to see Blair, Brown, Darling, Hoon et al marching through the streets of Wootton Bassett asking for forgiveness.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

The Isle of Man, given its constitutional position as a Crown Dependency that pay towards the War (Defence) costs of the British government certainly shares a burden of responsibility that filters down to those who support the Manx government.

These monies (the Imperial Contribution) go towards defence (our defence) and overseas representation (our use of consulates etc.) and have a very long history going back hundreds of years. It's all down to the Dukes of Atholl.

And the monies by UK citizens goes towards that countries defence (warmaking) - same situation. It is paid on the assumption that such monies go to funding the armed forces. Armed forces who roles is certainly not limited to protection of the British Isles, but rather to advance the elites interests in the world. The Isle of Man pays towards Afghanistan.

 

It certainly does not imply any acceptance or support of particular foreign policies of the UK government of the day.

You're right, but you support a state (Manx government) that forces you to pay towards the armed forces that conduct these operations. And that state also condones and give the knod to the purpose and structure of the British armed forces.

 

And depending on your outlook, as a human being witnessing the use of violence without good cause that results in the killing of many innocents, homelessness, people fleeing their homes, and the disruption of their lives - do you have a responsibility to involve yourself to end such injustices.

 

If the REGION remains stable - that's a victory.

Yes, a region was destablised and then a victory appears to find a stabilisation of sorts.

 

If it takes NATO forces to remain there to do it then so be it. That's what NATO is for.

For what? Stabilisation? It isn't. The purpose of NATO NOW (because it had a very differenct purpose prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union) when conducting Out of Area Operations is simply to serve (primarily) American interests across the world when the Europeans nations are willing to contribute. It's purpose isn't stabilisation.

 

its just a fact of life the most powerful will survive at any cost, and nothing you or I do will stop it,

I don't agree that efforts to resist the existing power structures is in vain.

[P.K.]

I'd like to see Blair, Brown, Darling, Hoon et al marching through the streets of Wootton Bassett asking for forgiveness.

Forgiveness for what? Oh yes, that's right, doing something you don't agree with. Dream on....

 

If it takes NATO forces to remain there to do it then so be it. That's what NATO is for.

For what? Stabilisation? It isn't. The purpose of NATO NOW (because it had a very differenct purpose prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union) when conducting Out of Area Operations is simply to serve (primarily) American interests across the world when the Europeans nations are willing to contribute. It's purpose isn't stabilisation.

I'm glad NATO has evolved to deal with the modern world. Aren't you?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I'm not glad that NATO still exists. Wish it was ended in the early 1990s. Why are you a fan?

 

Forgiveness for what? Oh yes, that's right, doing something you don't agree with. Dream on....

But it is something very disagreeable. Something that should never have happened.

[slinkydevil]

I'm not glad that NATO still exists. Wish it was ended in the early 1990s. Why are you a fan?

 

Why do you wish it ended?

[K.os Theory]

Hey everyone

 

forgive me for being naive on this subject, and this isn't a trolling post, but can some please explain to me in laymans terms the reason for the US/UK actually being in Afghanistan?

 

I can almost believe the WMD reasoning behind the invasion of Iraq; but when did Afghanistan get authorised as some kind of "global threat " or did i miss the memo?

 

Is there a massive oil field hidden under Afghanistan by any chance or are we ( the US/UK ) really trying to stop global terrorism ( if this was the case wouldn't we be backing up Pakistan and the Yemen with troops/equipment etc as they seem to be suffering the biggest threats atm? )

 

This is a real honest to goodness question, I've searched for answers and can't really find any and this issue leaves me feeling slightly "uneasy"...

 

just on a side note...has any country ever successfully taken control of Afghanistan ( I'm thinking that if Flashman couldn't tame the natives then what chance do Gordon/Barack have )

 

sorry if these questions have been answered in previous posts/threads