Chinahand Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 This is a very serious issue and really says something about human nature. A quack came up with a fake device which he claimed uses the ideas of dowsing to detect explosives. Dowsing is WOO pure and simple - there is no scientific basis for it and no matter what claims are made about vibrations and laylines etc it doesn't work any better than guessing. But those facts didn't stop the "inventor" of this device selling it for $40,000 each all over the world. Thailand bought it, Lebanon bought it, and most seriously of all Iraq bought it. The Iraqis spent $85 million on this dross. That just terrifies me - hundreds of people have died because of the lack of protection these devices give. The morals of the person who sold them, and the professionalism of the people who allowed WOO to leave them open to terrorism, just beggars belief. And what is frightening is that I am certain that these people will still claim the devices work - they are so dogmatically certain of their false beliefs that even when there is direct evidence that it is a fake and works no better than random chance they would rather believe in WOO. BBC LINK Bad Astronomy Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Doesn't look like a fake device at all http://www.ade651.com/ade651in.html I can see the sellers warped logic - if it fails to detect the bomb, customer complaints afterwards are pretty unlikely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Seems a sound technology investment to me...and likely to go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Thing is if you had 85m to spend on detection things. would you not go right lest buy 5 try them out on our own test and see what there like. would you not test drive a car b4 you buy it Money and his fool are soon parted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Thing is if you had 85m to spend on detection things.would you not go right lest buy 5 try them out on our own test and see what there like. would you not test drive a car b4 you buy it Money and his fool are soon parted gazza! Test drive.....NO, I'd want the seller to give me a demonstration, through a minefield, with me at a safe distance of course. That would show whether the seller has confidence in the product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 I am absoultely delighted that the owner of the company that sells this bogus woo has been arrested for fraud. Hundreds of lives has been lost as a result of the devices he has sold not performing as he has claimed they are able to. I really really hope this is done properly with a genuine double blind test large enough to clearly show whether these devices can perform better than guessing. And as a result he gets the book thrown at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 but ....... It is extremely easy to aperate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Newsnight investigation up on iplayer now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00q9...ght_22_01_2010/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Thing is if you had 85m to spend on detection things.would you not go right lest buy 5 try them out on our own test and see what there like. would you not test drive a car b4 you buy it Money and his fool are soon parted gazza! Test drive.....NO, I'd want the seller to give me a demonstration, through a minefield, with me at a safe distance of course. That would show whether the seller has confidence in the product. well that as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Well, the wheels of justice grind slowly, but I have to say I am absolutely delighted that James McCormick has been found guilty of fraud for selling fake bomb detectors.BBC Link It is seriously depressing that a fraud such of this can be so successful. Never underestimate the gullibility of people and their willingness to believe claims at face value without verification. £50 million and more on woo - woo which totally failed to detect bombs - how many deaths is Mr McCormick responsible for? Caveat emptor is a principle I hold to very dearly, did no one do a rigorous double blind test of these devices? Was McCormick deluded, or venal in selling them? If deluded what testing did he do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Be fair - it can detect mines if you hit the ground hard enough with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 At one time this would have been an April Fool. Nothing is surprising nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prism10 Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Be fair - it can detect mines if you hit the ground hard enough with it! Part of me wants to applaud this man's sheer cheek and for highlighting the profiteering element of war which is endemic. More importantly, the tone of the news reporting yesterday wanted to make me throw up. So this guy lied and made millions and there were some victims. You could argue AND what about the Iraq war itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 The Boston bomber has been charged with using 'Weapons of Mass Destruction;' i.e. pressure-cookers. That recipe is definitely not in the Tefal recipe book that came with mine. Though the chilli I made the other night was deemed rather hazardous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 So this guy lied and made millions and there were some victims. You could argue AND what about the Iraq war itself Working out motives is difficult and it's even more complicated when it comes to political motives. It looks like McCormick's motives were entirely mercenary, telling a salesman who questioned that the bomb detectors don't work that they do exactly what they are meant to do - make money for McCormick! My feeling is that many of the politicians, and especially Blair, were sincere, though maybe deluded, in their belief that stopping Saddam was a good motive. But as ever in life this sincere belief simply confirms Ronnie Reagan's nostrum that the most dangerous words in the world are: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." Untold misery can result for all the bleeding hearts good motive of the politician spending other people's money and ordering other people to fight the "good" fight. It's an interesting ethical argument - Kant said it only motives matter, and not consequences in debating whether something was moral. I pretty strongly disagree - if you create misery even though your motives were good, you should be held to account for that. Consequentalist ethics vrs ontological (?spelling?) is a fascinating debate, but I believe for all the supposed sincerity of Blair's motives the way the conflict was handled has made things far worse for many, with other's profiteering from human misery. This example is truly sobering, but as has been said it is only a microcosm of the Tragedy which is Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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