Using Biofuel In Cars 'may Accelerate Loss Of Rainforest'

[Terse]

CLICK

 

There are times when it really seems that the tree-hugging brigade are so anxious to make themselves seem important that they really don't think through the consequences of their preaching.

[Slim]

There are times when it really seems that the tree-hugging brigade are so anxious to make themselves seem important that they really don't think

through the consequences of their preaching.

 

You think the average environmentalist thinks rainforest should be chopped down to grow biofuel?

[gazza]

hmmm i can remember when the tree huggers not so long ago used to say that the rainforest would be gone by all the ones farming it for beef to feed the world

[Terse]

You think the average environmentalist thinks?

No.

[jimbms]

This about on par with the idiots who complain on one hand about our over use of fossil fuels and nuclear power yet stage a mass protest when someone want to put a windf arm somewhere near them.

[Slim]

This about on par with the idiots who complain on one hand about our over use of fossil fuels and nuclear power yet stage a mass protest when someone want to put a windf arm somewhere near them.

 

No, it's nothing like that. Nor is it, in my opinion, a 'har look at those stupid environmentalists' story either. This is a sensible cautionary warning that replacing fossil fuels with biofuels at a cost of rainforests is stupid. It is stupid, the article is correct. It's also stupid to harvest biofuels using fossil fuel resources, totally defeats the point.

 

Does that mean biofuels are stupid? Not if they're grown sustainably without destroying rainforests.

 

Not sure how it makes environmentalists stupid, can you explain that to me Terse?

[gazza]

This about on par with the idiots who complain on one hand about our over use of fossil fuels and nuclear power yet stage a mass protest when someone want to put a windf arm somewhere near them.

 

It's also stupid to harvest biofuels using fossil fuel resources, totally defeats the point.

 

 

 

well not stupid if it cost say 1000gallon of fossil fuels to produce 10000gallons fo bio fuel, then its not stupid is it.

because its made more than it put in.

[Republican]

Biofuels wouldn't solve the energy demand. It isn't a firm replacement for oil. It should be used but not to intensley.

[Slim]

well not stupid if it cost say 1000gallon of fossil fuels to produce 10000gallons fo bio fuel, then its not stupid is it.

because its made more than it put in.

 

That's true. But even better to have sustainable alternatives, such as biofuels made from the waste products of food crops.

[gazza]

well not stupid if it cost say 1000gallon of fossil fuels to produce 10000gallons fo bio fuel, then its not stupid is it.

because its made more than it put in.

 

That's true. But even better to have sustainable alternatives, such as biofuels made from the waste products of food crops.

 

that aint going to happin i dont think.

 

it be food or fuel for the land.

 

depending which one pays the most,

id say there be a few hungry ppl in the world cause it wont be food

[Slim]

that aint going to happin i dont think.

 

it be food or fuel for the land.

 

depending which one pays the most,

id say there be a few hungry ppl in the world cause it wont be food

 

You're a half empty kind of guy. There's a lot of work going into this, with biobotanol plants being set up using waste products like wheat straw and wood offcuts. It's a rapidly moving area, worth keeping an eye on and not writing off already.

 

http://bioenergy.checkbiotech.org/news/big...growth_industry

[Albert Tatlock]

that aint going to happin i dont think.

 

it be food or fuel for the land.

 

depending which one pays the most,

id say there be a few hungry ppl in the world cause it wont be food

I think they'll eventually have to compromise in a few years time with Soylent Dark...at £2 a litre.

[gazza]

that aint going to happin i dont think.

 

it be food or fuel for the land.

 

depending which one pays the most,

id say there be a few hungry ppl in the world cause it wont be food

 

You're a half empty kind of guy. There's a lot of work going into this, with biobotanol plants being set up using waste products like wheat straw and wood offcuts. It's a rapidly moving area, worth keeping an eye on and not writing off already.

 

http://bioenergy.checkbiotech.org/news/big...growth_industry

 

no i dont think i see myself as a half empty sort of person i just see things in the bigger light.

im not going to say that it will never work, but it will never replace or fill the demand that we will have but may well take a good % up of the demand,

[jimbms]

well not stupid if it cost say 1000gallon of fossil fuels to produce 10000gallons fo bio fuel, then its not stupid is it.

because its made more than it put in.

 

That's true. But even better to have sustainable alternatives, such as biofuels made from the waste products of food crops.

Problem is Slim old bean is that to make this Island self sufficient in biofuel and biofuel produced power and gas after deducting the amount gained from energy to waste, anaerobic digestion of animal and human sewage/waste and food waste, that unless we harnessed a good amount of wind and tidal power and said up your to the eco freaks who don't like the looks of them, we would need over 50% of our land to grow even the highest bio returnable crop to enable this according to my most recent calculations where I included the use of Miscanthus (Elephant Grass) in this, now if we could start to use algae to offer multiple end products: ethanol via fermentation, biodiesel via oil extraction and transesterification; biomethane via anaerobic digestion; or electricity from a direct alcohol fuel cell, then we could include bays on our coast line to grow this and it would be much more viable due to the high yield of algae, but if we instead used land to grow pond based algae then we find grows so fast, it can produce 15,000 gallons of biodiesel per acre in a very short time with a yield per acre over 100 times that of conventional bio crops, we also have the added fact that it converts so much co2 to o2 that if we grew enough to provide one third of our needs we would be in minus figure in our co2 emissions within a few weeks and if we sign to the Kyoto agreement we could also make a substantial amount from trading carbon credits as we could make a massive surplus in a short time. Now add to this that we could get farmers to produce this and pay them for the crops it would still be cheaper than conventional fuels and also create employment.

Oops ok that’s me rabbiting on too much I will leave it at that, but I could go on for ages on the various biofuels and their uses etc.

[Slim]

Problem is Slim old bean is that to make this Island self sufficient in biofuel and biofuel produced power and gas after deducting the amount gained from energy to waste, anaerobic digestion of animal and human sewage/waste and food waste, that unless we harnessed a good amount of wind and tidal power and said up your to the eco freaks who don't like the looks of them, we would need over 50% of our land to grow even the highest bio returnable crop to enable this according to my most recent calculations where I included the use of Miscanthus (Elephant Grass) in this, now if we could start to use algae to offer multiple end products: ethanol via fermentation, biodiesel via oil extraction and transesterification; biomethane via anaerobic digestion; or electricity from a direct alcohol fuel cell, then we could include bays on our coast line to grow this and it would be much more viable due to the high yield of algae, but if we instead used land to grow pond based algae then we find grows so fast, it can produce 15,000 gallons of biodiesel per acre in a very short time with a yield per acre over 100 times that of conventional bio crops, we also have the added fact that it converts so much co2 to o2 that if we grew enough to provide one third of our needs we would be in minus figure in our co2 emissions within a few weeks and if we sign to the Kyoto agreement we could also make a substantial amount from trading carbon credits as we could make a massive surplus in a short time. Now add to this that we could get farmers to produce this and pay them for the crops it would still be cheaper than conventional fuels and also create employment.

Oops ok that’s me rabbiting on too much I will leave it at that, but I could go on for ages on the various biofuels and their uses etc.

 

 

Urgh, that's barely legible Jim. What I think you're saying, "we don't have the space on land for biofuel crops so we should *insert jimbms fave buzzword bio techs*" instead. That about it?

 

How's that a problem with my post? Did I say anything about self sufficiency? You've replied to my post, but ignored the point I was making, that with new tech like biobotanol from waste that you may be able to have crops that produce food AND fuel.

 

Your estimates of requirements also seem to ignore efficiency increases. I've never suggested we match current fuel demands with alternatives. I've always said these points need to converge; reduction in consumption, increased efficiency, increased use of renewable energy.