Man Who Forced Wife To Wear Muslim Veil To Be Denied French Nationality

[woolley]

What's THE issue?

 

The threat to the western way of life as we know it.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

How so?

[woolley]

Are you really so indoctrinated that you cannot see the dangers we face?

[Vulgarian]

 

What's THE issue?

 

The threat to the western way of life as we know it.

 

What is the 'Western way of life' anyway? Does it include intolerance of other forms of dress, speech, religion, and ways of doing things? Does it include forced indoctrination into a constructed nationalist mindset, citizenship tests, and language fascism?

 

Whatever the 'Western way of life' is, Islam does not constitute a threat to it in any way.

[ballaughbiker]

Radical islam is about as intolerant as you can get and clearly utilises indoctrination. Radical islam says it despises the 'western way of life' and would love to change it for something that gives them control. With that in mind I think you'd be better off asking them what this western way of life is.

[woolley]

Methinks some people are in for a very nasty shock if they live long enough.

[Vulgarian]

Radical islam says it despises the 'western way of life' and would love to change it for something that gives them control.

 

I'm sure they would, but they have about as much chance of overthrowing Western civilisation as one of my farts, which can be pretty powerful after I've been on the ale.

[ballaughbiker]

If only "they" had no oil ....

[woolley]

 

Radical islam says it despises the 'western way of life' and would love to change it for something that gives them control.

 

I'm sure they would, but they have about as much chance of overthrowing Western civilisation as one of my farts, which can be pretty powerful after I've been on the ale.

You can create an awful lot of damage from within. This is what will happen and they will use our freedoms and legal systems against us. Obviously they are not going to confront the western military symmetrically. They won't need to. Lack of backbone, time, numbers, demographics are all it will take.

[ballaughbiker]

Demographics/numbers being the key ones

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Both you and Woolley are just spouting out nebulous guff without anything firm to argue from.

Do you understand what I mean here? You're going at it with gusto giving us the usual talk about how there is a threat, indoctrination, and all sorts of stuff about people changing our liberties, etc. but none of this is addressing the issue of the Burka.

And more to the point, you seem to be facing a contradiction when you talk about bans on clothing (which is illiberal and presumes some authority is ok to make such a decision and enforce it) and then complain about a threat to our freedoms.

 

Say that lots of people did walk around Strand Street with a niqab or burkha on, what are you getting at when you complain about the possible effect of this? Are you saying it is going to catch on or something?

[woolley]

Are you saying it is going to catch on or something?

 

Yes. Big style. Just wait and see.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

But that would only come about from more people (from those countries where it is worn) coming to the Island. Naturally, they will have a different culture. That's ok. It has always been accepted in the past. I mean, the Island is so English and many aspects of the cultural change seem very saddening given how boring and dull many aspects of English culture are. If anything, more foreign cultures have more to offer in terms of what is interesting. Their culture is far less likely to catch on with the average Manxman or Anglo-Saxon.

What is it about the niqab or burka requires a ban though? Would you also want bans on any non-British displays of culture?

[woolley]

You are either being obtuse or you genuinely don't see the bigger picture. It is not just about the Island or indeed Britain. This extends throughout Europe. We are under attack from a malign force and the worrying thing is that we have a population that has largely been raised to see it as benign and even to be pandered to in the cause of multiculturalism. Perhaps you are one of those who have been so conditioned. Niqabs, burkas etc on the streets are but a symptom of what is happening in Europe. I have seen the situation developing in suburbs of many European cities and it frightens the hell out of me. You would not believe that you are even in Europe in some places. Governments have no clue what to do other than to keep the lid on it for as long as possible. After that? As I said, if you are young enough, wait and see.

[guzzi]

I am quite ambivalent on the question of the burkah and niqab. I think it is important to be inclusive and to engage British Muslims in our society to the fullest extent possible. That is first of all equitable, but also will ensure that the lives of British Muslims contrast sharply with those of Muslims living in extremist regimes. However, there must actually be a contrast, and one of the areas that contrasts most radically is respect and equal treatment of women. The burkah and niqab symbolise the oppression of women under some forms of Islam, and on balance, for that reason, should be illegal in Britain. I realise that this would alienate some, but nevertheless that does not make it wrong. I am sure that some members of ethnic minorities are alienated by the illegality of forced marriage and FGM in Britain, and whilst I do not pretend that they are equivalent, I do think it illustrates that British society should be distinct from cultures in countries of origin. Viive la difference!