Ba Strike

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Mrs Thatcher's govt was as equally anti Libertarian, anti freedom as, say, Blair Bush. Mrs Thatcher began well but her govt quickly abandoned libertarianism. Even in economics.

Thatcher and her government were never a libertarian. Even if you use the American definition, which I assume you are doing, the economic policies she adopted were not ones that endorsed the complete freedom of the market.

[jimbms]

Mrs Thatcher's govt was as equally anti Libertarian, anti freedom as, say, Blair Bush. Mrs Thatcher began well but her govt quickly abandoned libertarianism. Even in economics.

Thatcher and her government were never a libertarian. Even if you use the American definition, which I assume you are doing, the economic policies she adopted were not ones that endorsed the complete freedom of the market.

That's is exactly what he said you plonker, what part of Mrs Thatcher's govt was as equally anti Libertariandid you not understand to think he said she was.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

"...but her government quickly abandoned libertarianism." That's what Pongo said! Read again!

[jimbms]

"...but her government quickly abandoned libertarianism." That's what Pongo said! Read again!

Mrs Thatcher's govt was as equally anti Libertarian, anti freedom as, say, Blair Bush.

Like that?

I can also be selective when needed

[P.K.]

BA Strikes Back! (sorry)

 

"BA strikers to forfeit cheap travel perks"

 

I agree with this as the staff seem in "self destruct" mode. Story.

[mæŋksmən]

That means no more flying pickets PK.

 

Well unless its full price.

 

Listen to this tosser union leader.

 

"This is the clearest possible example of BA's bullying and contemptuous approach to its employees. Cabin crew showed last weekend that they will not be intimidated.

"Unite will challenge this vindictive move in whatever way seems appropriate."

The joint leader of Unite, Tony Woodley, had told strikers on Monday that he believed the long-established discounts were not just a perk but "custom and practice".

 

 

Hasnt dawned on them that if they fuck the business there wont be any travel for anyone.

[P.K.]

The joint leader of Unite, Tony Woodley, had told strikers on Monday that he believed the long-established discounts were not just a perk but "custom and practice".

So it's a "custom and practice" - who gives a flying?

 

It's not in the T&C's - end of.

[jimbms]

BA Strikes Back! (sorry)

 

"BA strikers to forfeit cheap travel perks"

 

I agree with this as the staff seem in "self destruct" mode. Story.

 

 

Nice to see that some companies will stand up to unions, let's face it BA crews get more holidays, higherpay and more perks than any other UK airline and they are moaning about a pay freeze that many of us have had to accept. They tried to bulyy the company to get what they wanted and have not shot themselves in the foot, they threw their toys out of the pram and BA have quite rightly taken the rest of the toys away from the spoiled brats.

[Cambon]

I was clicking through the associated links and came across this in the Wail. I wonder how much truth there is to it. I had heard a few weeks ago that there was s power struggle at the top of Unite and that was at the heart of the BA issue.

 

If what Williw Walsh says is correct, relatively few cabin crew will be striking this weekend. It would not surprise me if he sacked them and got his cost cutting that way.

[mæŋksmən]

Funny 20 years ago most people would of been in favour of the union, now they are so yesterday.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Again, it doesn't matter what other companies do or what working conditions and pay they have. One's assessment of whether their working conditions and pay are fair are not weighed by comparing with other companies.

 

It also seems that many idiots think that the cabin crew are completely oblivious to the idea that their strikes will affect the company and could maybe make them go bust. Of course they know this, but they don't want it.

 

Their primary concern is to try and get the best result they can. To sit back and do nothing is to invite the wankers in BA to do as they please, to make any decisions on staffing and their conditions as they see fit (though unfortunately for them has to be done legally). If people do nothing then that just gives BA a complete free hand.

 

At least if the cabin crew gang together they can collectively improve on their job security and force the company to make cuts elsewhere until the problems of the company decline. If they can't achieve this then it's all of them out of the job - which is better than have the wankers pick off small groups of people they don't want anymore.

 

And they are hardly spoiled Jimbms. Just because they earn £30,000 doesn't mean they're rolling in the money and choose to take industrial action so frivolously.

 

BA went straight in from the beginning and started making decisions on wages and worker conditions. They did the wrong thing.

 

But what I find most offensive in terms of other's opinions is this awful argument that the cabin crew are affecting the reputation of the company. Who gives a f***.

[mæŋksmən]

Again, it doesn't matter what other companies do or what working conditions and pay they have. One's assessment of whether their working conditions and pay are fair are not weighed by comparing with other companies.

 

It also seems that many idiots think that the cabin crew are completely oblivious to the idea that their strikes will affect the company and could maybe make them go bust. Of course they know this, but they don't want it.

 

Their primary concern is to try and get the best result they can. To sit back and do nothing is to invite the wankers in BA to do as they please, to make any decisions on staffing and their conditions as they see fit (though unfortunately for them has to be done legally). If people do nothing then that just gives BA a complete free hand.

 

At least if the cabin crew gang together they can collectively improve on their job security and force the company to make cuts elsewhere until the problems of the company decline. If they can't achieve this then it's all of them out of the job - which is better than have the wankers pick off small groups of people they don't want anymore.

 

And they are hardly spoiled Jimbms. Just because they earn £30,000 doesn't mean they're rolling in the money and choose to take industrial action so frivolously.

 

BA went straight in from the beginning and started making decisions on wages and worker conditions. They did the wrong thing.

 

But what I find most offensive in terms of other's opinions is this awful argument that the cabin crew are affecting the reputation of the company. Who gives a f***.

 

Its their business LDV.

To do with and run how they like, the workers have a right to accept the pay and conditions being offered or not, if not then they take their labour elsewhere.

Thats how it works, entrepenuer biulds a business and runs it how he sees fit, the work force accept or leave or refuse the job.

The government impliment and upgrade working conditions along with competition among companies for quality staff.

Its not complicated even for you to understand.

[Cambon]

Cabin crew earn a MINIMUM of just under £30,000. The best paid senior cabin crew, with perks, earn £72,000, and a lot of the perks are not taxable.

 

The door is open at BA for negotiations but unite, in their wisdom are trying to eb devisive. The bottom line is that the cabin crew's terms and conditions of employment give both parties the write to terminate the contract. It is teh cabin crew's call and my guess is that as the number of strikers dwindles, the number of contract terminations is being finalised. Besides the payoffs will not be as high as the £7 million a day that teh strikes cost. BA is being very patient in my opinion.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Its their business LDV.

To do with and run how they like, the workers have a right to accept the pay and conditions being offered or not, if not then they take their labour elsewhere.

Thats how it works, entrepenuer biulds a business and runs it how he sees fit, the work force accept or leave or refuse the job.

The government impliment and upgrade working conditions along with competition among companies for quality staff.

Its not complicated even for you to understand.

I understand how things operate in practice in our society, and it is unacceptable. I would like to live in a democratic society. I want to see one where the people who undertake the work have a say in their work. I don't recognise the legitimacy of the business owner or business to dictate to the workers. The workers have to have a say in their work and how the company is run - because they are the ones who are primarily responsible for making that company viable. It is off their back that the company makes its profits.

In such a way, the cabin crew have every justification to have a say in how things are done in BA.

The idea that people should just leave the company if they don't like it is naive as it completely ignores the fact that the resigning worker is to be met by the same lack of control of work, job insecurity, similar working conditions wherever they go. And the fact that it is actually the case that the company should be more under the control of the workers in a decent society, not some shareholders.

 

Cambon - I don't see why you bring the wage into this. It isn't relevant. Unless you wish to explain why. The door isn't open with BA anymore for negotiation. And the outcome that BA wants will involve job losses and changes to working hours for the crew.

 

I really would like to have a good and thorough explanation as to what the BA staff (or any workers) should do in situations such as this. It seems almost as if people think that they should accept your lot. Accept the situation that these are awfully tough times so if the company can drop you then that's just fine. It's a very inhumane and biased position to take.

 

There are no real winners in situations like this when companies are in difficulty or when there are problems with the economy, but for the worker to sit back and do nothing is to place the control and power over one's ability to feed and shelter oneself completely at the mercy of the equally selfish employer.

[jimbms]

I understand how things operate in practice in our society, and it is unacceptable. I would like to live in a democratic society. I want to see one where the people who undertake the work have a say in their work. I don't recognise the legitimacy of the business owner or business to dictate to the workers. The workers have to have a say in their work and how the company is run - because they are the ones who are primarily responsible for making that company viable. It is off their back that the company makes its profits.

I don't see you do understand, the basics is that someone or a group of people own a company, they ask people to work to produce the product of that company for a fee the owner decides at the onset, if the employee at any time does not like the fee or conditions they are free to leave. In the same light if a company decide they need to cut costs to increase profits then they cut some perks from employees and freeze pay increases, the workers are still free to leave if they wish, if the workers do not like this and decide to strike then the company has the right to move it's operations to a country where they get better value, the employee has no right to stop this, if they pass law to do this then the owner simply closes the operation down and starts up elsewhere, ypu cannot force him to stay open. Before you even mention it I am not talking specific BA here just companies in general. If as a person you do not like the way things operate in society then you are free to leave it and go to another society where your ideals can be met. At the end of the day you cannot force an employer to keep a place open without profit just so the workers can have an easy life. You could always buy the factory or take it over as a workers collective run by the workers, but as proved in eastern europe this doesnt work, you still get high payed management and low payed manual workers.