Ba Strike

[Cambon]

I understand how things operate in practice in our society, and it is unacceptable. I would like to live in a democratic society. I want to see one where the people who undertake the work have a say in their work. I don't recognise the legitimacy of the business owner or business to dictate to the workers. The workers have to have a say in their work and how the company is run - because they are the ones who are primarily responsible for making that company viable. It is off their back that the company makes its profits.

In such a way, the cabin crew have every justification to have a say in how things are done in BA.

The idea that people should just leave the company if they don't like it is naive as it completely ignores the fact that the resigning worker is to be met by the same lack of control of work, job insecurity, similar working conditions wherever they go. And the fact that it is actually the case that the company should be more under the control of the workers in a decent society, not some shareholders.

 

The majority of BA workers have accepted the changes. It is only the cabin crew who are kicking up a fuss. Since the majority of workers have accepted it, is that not democratic?

 

Cambon - I don't see why you bring the wage into this. It isn't relevant. Unless you wish to explain why. The door isn't open with BA anymore for negotiation. And the outcome that BA wants will involve job losses and changes to working hours for the crew.

 

Actually, you brought up the £30,000 a few posts up

 

I really would like to have a good and thorough explanation as to what the BA staff (or any workers) should do in situations such as this. It seems almost as if people think that they should accept your lot. Accept the situation that these are awfully tough times so if the company can drop you then that's just fine. It's a very inhumane and biased position to take.

 

The majority of BA workers have democratically accepted the changes.

 

There are no real winners in situations like this when companies are in difficulty or when there are problems with the economy, but for the worker to sit back and do nothing is to place the control and power over one's ability to feed and shelter oneself completely at the mercy of the equally selfish employer.

 

Bollocks. The choice is there for them - take a pay cut or the company goes bust and you are on the dole. Your choice?

 

 

Edited for quoting error

[La_Dolce_Vita]

The majority of BA workers have accepted the changes. It is only the cabin crew who are kicking up a fuss. Since the majority of workers have accepted it, is that not democratic?

No, it isn't. I was talking about having a democratic workplace where people run and control the workplace and preferably own it too.

 

Actually, you brought up the £30,000 a few posts up

No, I have responded to those who keep bringing up the wage issue to try and run a comparative with other cabin crew from other companies.

 

The majority of BA workers have democratically accepted the changes.

Not really. You're talking a system where many workers would not join the union and would not take part in worker action because of many factors, but an important one are their political perspectives (heavily influenced by political propaganda that frames their understanding of such issues as this as one where BA are entitled to do as they wish and where an 'each to their own' mentality works best - an unintentionally masochistic outlook).

But we can't really talk of democracy in such a tyranny where people's choices as to whether they should strike are affected by the punishments of their masters and where they are heavily propangised to accept the justifications of the company in making such decisions without worker input and decisionmaking.

 

Bollocks. The choice is there for them - take a pay cut or the company goes bust and you are on the dole. Your choice?

And what of the workers involvement in knowing EXACTLY what the situation is and knowing that every effort is made to retain jobs and staff and focus on other ways to reduce costs? Was there such involvement? Without it the understandable response is to fight for the jobs, because it is known that the company will desire to shed staff far more than look anywhere for costs.

If the company goes bust then these people can get other jobs. The other alternative is to sit back and just hope that your job isn't the one to go or your working conditions are not altered.

 

 

Edited for quoting error

[Evil Goblin]

"I want to see one where the people who undertake the work have a say in their work. I don't recognise the legitimacy of the business owner or business to dictate to the workers. The workers have to have a say in their work and how the company is run"

 

LDV - you are once again living in an ideal world that is far removed from the real one in which we live. The unfortunate fact is that the great majority of the workforce/people just don't have what it takes to actually run a business succesfully - believe me, it's really tough. Most people need telling what to do and at times what is necessary doesn't suit them - tough! It would be really good if the mass of the workforce could in some way have it imprinted in their minds just what a difficult job it is to keep a business going at all thses days, never mind succeed!

[Cambon]

No, it isn't. I was talking about having a democratic workplace where people run and control the workplace and preferably own it too.

you are talking of a commune

And what of the workers involvement in knowing EXACTLY what the situation is and knowing that every effort is made to retain jobs and staff and focus on other ways to reduce costs? Was there such involvement? Without it the understandable response is to fight for the jobs, because it is known that the company will desire to shed staff far more than look anywhere for costs.

If the company goes bust then these people can get other jobs. The other alternative is to sit back and just hope that your job isn't the one to go or your working conditions are not altered.

They don't because their decision making power has been taken away by the union. The BA workers don't even know what BA put on the table that the union rejected without even balloting the voters. You call that democracy?

 

In another issue, BA recently sent a letter to all the ground workers giving a list of possiblilties for cost cutting, to ask their opinions. Unite found out and basically said to BA "What are you doing asking the workers? If you want to discuss that sort of thing you come to us. You can't ask youre workers!!!" You call that democracy?

 

You are a communist!

[mæŋksmən]

communists dont allow unions.

[jimbms]

If the company goes bust then these people can get other jobs.

What world do you live in, wake up boy, the world is in a recession, there are very few jobs out there, certainly not enough to take that many people let alone the ones layed off from other companies due to the original one going bust.

[mæŋksmən]

A big business like ba going bust has a domino effect on reliant companies aswell.

 

edit or what jim said.

[The Old Git]

OK, I give in. I've seen these low post count members making these pointless little posts on a number of forums now. What's it all about?

 

ETA - I see it's been deleted now

[Cambon]

communists dont allow unions.

LDV does not want unions either, if you read his post he wants a commune type system where the people are and own the company.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

 

What world do you live in, wake up boy, the world is in a recession, there are very few jobs out there, certainly not enough to take that many people let alone the ones layed off from other companies due to the original one going bust.

Then it could be that we taxpayers will need to support such people whilst they are unemployed and looking for another job, IF the company does go bust that is.

I mean, in bringing up the recession and current economic climate we have to recognise that it is symptomatic of the economic system we endorse. Well if we are happy with it, surely we must agree to pay with those who are affected badly by it.

 

A big business like ba going bust has a domino effect on reliant companies aswell.

I agree. Just the nature of things, not the cabin crews problem.

 

What I do tend to glean from the responses of many on this thread is that it isn't that there is an issue particularly with the nature of this BA strike but rather any worker action at all, i.e. strikes, etc. How depressing, how inconsiderate, and it really does smack of servility of mind - a shrugging of the shoulders when the company chooses to lay off staff as its often first resort and with no interest or care to the situation of those redundant staff.

But I've yet to hear a good argument on here as to why industrial action should not be tried.

 

Cambon - any yes, you're right, I don't think unions are that great at all. They can only take class struggle so far and in a particular way.

[jimbms]

Then it could be that we taxpayers will need to support such people whilst they are unemployed and looking for another job,

Right try to answer this without your usual waffle and keep exactly to the point. Atwhat point if companies keep going bust do you regard it is acceptable to have to put a halt to paying out such support or do you advocate a society where say only 20% are employed but are forced to support the other 80%. As a supplimentary question, how do you think these unemployed will get supported when the ones who can earn enough get fed up and leave the country because they no longer want to support them. That along with crime was one of the main reasons I left the UK and I am sure many others have also done so.

[Cambon]

But I've yet to hear a good argument on here as to why industrial action should not be tried.

 

It has been tried and last weekend failed to ground the airline. This weekend will fail to ground the airline. BA say they intend to fly more planes this weekend than last. If the cabin crew want a fair say in their future then they need to turn their backs on that corrupt union immediately, and go back to work with their tails between their legs and hope to still have a job in six months time. (i.e. that BA does not go bust as a result of the current unite power struggle between Red Len and Woodley.)

[jimbms]

Seems from the news this morning that a lot more flights are running than last time, maybe at last the workers have seen the union for the scum they are.

[Amadeus]

So looks like more industrial action on the way then.

 

I don't get it - the company is losing money left right'n centre, is already paying more than most competitors, and they decide to strike???

 

and to top it off, a bunch of retarded clowns storms the meeting

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10140911.stm

 

No wonder Britain's fucked...

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Yeah, it is losing money right, left, and centre and they cabin crew are paid somewhat more than others. Though most are not on more than £30,000. But their working conditions have changed without having any input from the staff, never mind any decisionmaking, and the staff rightly want to look for a way to cut costs elsewhere. If the company goes bust then those people can go find others jobs. But while they are employed by BA they appear to want to fight for what they should have.