Belgian Lawmakers Vote To Ban Burka

[Cambon]

Moscow was alledgedly chechens, not a burka insight.

 

I know but that was not the point.

[When Skies Are Grey]

Personally I find crucifixes offensive...lets ban those. In fact, lets ban all outward sign of religious leaning....

[slinkydevil]

Burkas, etc. should be banned by an emergency anti-terrorism law ASAP, before a bunch of suicide bombers do a Moscow anywhere else.

 

 

Moscow was alledgedly chechens, not a burka insight.

 

I know but that was not the point.

 

Ill-informed Berk.

[jimbms]

Personally I find crucifixes offensive...lets ban those. In fact, lets ban all outward sign of religious leaning....

Sounds fair enough to me.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

try see how far you get, if you approach the banking counters you will be asked to remove it, if you refuse they will not serve you, end of , if you remain in the bank once refused service demanding to be served as 'it's Your right' the police will be called and you will be escorted away,

How is the matter of 'how far you get' relevant? I agree, go somewhere you need to be idenitified, e.g. airport, banks, etc., and take off your niqab if you want to access those services. Maybe the banks COULD arrange for identification in a private area. If you refuse to leave when asked the police could remove you for trespassing.

 

But then I still have to ask, why a ban?

 

 

thats what i'm saying, how do you know it's a woman and not a terrorist , the other argument is how do we know that under these flowing robes there is not a bomb, in these current times it is of their own making that everyone else is so suspicious of their type so who's to blame,

Poor argument. You have devices at airports that can detect bombs. But again, you can still ask that such things are removed at very specific locations. A ban in all public places is quite another matter and one that additional security doesn't excuse.

 

You can have a terrorist walking through town with a bomb strapped round their waist whilst wearing a jumper.

A non-government/non-military terrorist is more likely to be Muslim, but the wearing of the burkha only would make it very slightly easier to conceal a bomb than other clothing. Did the terrorits who bombed the buses in London wear Burkhas? Did those who carried out 9/11? What about the train bombings in Spain? Nope.

 

Well LDV this does really suprise me, you are actually condoning a religion to exploit women and treat them as second class citizens by forcing them to wear a Burka, I would say this instead of this ban being bad it is actually a way of helping these women to prevent the imams forcing their laws on them.

Idiot. Most woman actually WANT to continue wearing it because they have been brought up as Muslims and with particular cultural attitudes towards their sexuality and how it is expressed. Many who move to Britain, for example, choose to START wearing it.

 

The problem is the religion and sexism in those culture, but you can't ban religion.

 

I agree they should be banned, for very similar reasons to Digga. LDV, before you start talking about the right to dress as you want, please take off all your clothes and walk down Strand Street - see how far you get before you are arrested.

Not very far. What does that have to do with what is right and wrong? I mean really you'd think in a liberal society that people would be able to wear nothing if they wished. It is only because we lived in a heavily sexually repressed society that showing all of your body is a crime. It is crazy.

In any case, I know your views are rather conservative, but Digga's argument is very poor indeed. He hasn't pointed out why a ban is necessary - only that in some circumstances it is necessary for people to identify others.

 

And again, I have to press on this. You don't believe in liberal and democratic values I take it?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Burkas, etc. should be banned by an emergency anti-terrorism law ASAP, before a bunch of suicide bombers do a Moscow anywhere else.

You are right, the chechens wore Burkas, from what I remember, when they gassed the cinema.

 

But your argument is SO indicative of the completely biased and uninformed/misunderstood understanding of terrorism.

I mean, what would you like to see done about the Russian Army, the army used for terrorist activities against the Chechen people in Grozny and the surrounding region? Do you want a ban on governments and armies? Or are do you have more issue with terrorism when it isn't expressly endorsed by a government?

[Max Power]

I believe in democracy, freedom of expression and liberalism, but we meed laws and rules to enable us to have these priviliges! We had a damn sight more freedom before we had terrorism from within our midst and it's a fine line between 'fluffy' liberalism and being blown to pieces. The state has a government democratically elected to protect the ordinary population from all kinds of harm. Groups or individuals who threaten others must be legislated against! Individuals who want exemption from this legislation should go somewhere which is willing to accept them. It's about time that Britain was less tolerant of these groups and perhaps we could return to the kind of freedoms which we have had to surrender!

[P.K.]

Oh dear. Make a choice. Either you want a democratic, liberal society or you do not.

No problems with that. Let's have a referendum on whether on not they can carry on subjugating their women and living in the stone age.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now let me see here, which way would the vote go...

[Albert Tatlock]

if the towel heads would agree to remove the head dress when required there would be no arguments

 

The fact that you dismiss people as "towel heads" reflects what you are like. I wouldn't want to be part of your society either. I would be equally unhappy to live under any version of islamic law.

Yes, it's quite disgusting to call these people 'Towel Heads'. Hardly a helpful terminology for this debate.

 

Especially when most people know it's 'Rag-Heads'.

 

I agree with the ban. You could be anyone at the bank or the airport dressed in one of those berkhas.

 

They should ban all religion too while they are at it.

[Pat Ayres]

What would happen if the Burka became fashionable and everyone wore one?

[triskelion]

I agree with the ban. You could be anyone at the bank or the airport dressed in one of those berkhas.

Its not as though the only solution is a legislative ban though, is it? How about requiring airports and banks to have curtained off areas and female employee to accomodate people with veils? I think airports by in large already do this anyway, and banks should be doing this as part of meeting their customers' needs.

 

This ban seems to have been completely born out of hysteria - its not as though inoffensive Belgium is key to the plans of Islamic militants.

[Gilly G. Ossenfeffer]

..thats what i'm saying, how do you know it's a woman and not a terrorist , the other argument is how do we know that under these flowing robes there is not a bomb, in these current times it is of their own making that everyone else is so suspicious of their type so who's to blame,

A few instances.....

21/7 Burka escape

Terror suspect used veil to escape

Burka clad bombers

Escape bid in burka

[pongo]

We had a damn sight more freedom before we had terrorism from within our midst

 

There has always been terrorism in Britain and Europe. Many of the European states were born out of some form of terrorism.

 

---

 

In Season 1 episode 11 of The Sweeney, a crooked car park attendant played by Warren Mitchell avoids Police surveillance by disguising himself as a woman. Ban long hair, lipstick and boots.

[Gilly G. Ossenfeffer]

Banning certain types of clothing will not make a society any safer.

Might prevent this poor woman from becoming water-logged and drowning....

 

[Gilly G. Ossenfeffer]

I agree with the ban. You could be anyone at the bank or the airport dressed in one of those berkhas.

Its not as though the only solution is a legislative ban though, is it? How about requiring airports and banks to have curtained off areas and female employee to accomodate people with veils? I think airports by in large already do this anyway, and banks should be doing this as part of meeting their customers' needs.

This ban seems to have been completely born out of hysteria - its not as though inoffensive Belgium is key to the plans of Islamic militants.

Yes...far simpler to install those facilities at every airport/bank than to ask veil wearers to lift them upon entering these premises....sheesh....madness