Eugene Terreblanche Killed In South Africa

[Chinahand]

My goodness what a waste of time. Jimbms it is very easy to blame someone or some group for a non-existent crime. In some ways that is best sort of crime to blame on someone/group - it cannot be disproved. That is almost the sine qua non of religious conflict. My imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend. How do you stop two children having this fight? You can't use reason to end it.

[jimbms]

My goodness what a waste of time. Jimbms it is very easy to blame someone or some group for a non-existent crime. In some ways that is best sort of crime to blame on someone/group - it cannot be disproved. That is almost the sine qua non of religious conflict. My imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend. How do you stop two children having this fight? You can't use reason to end it.

I take it you got turned down for the plain English awards this year?

[Chinahand]

It's not me that's prejudiced. It's people who claim that all races are equal that are prejudiced.

 

Prejudiced against the glaringly obvious because it runs counter to their prejudice that such could not be so.

 

Rog, in 1980 China was at a per capita level considerably poorer than sub-Saharan Africa. Was it glaringly obvious then that the Chinese "race" was inferior to the African "race", who were also inferior to the white "race"?

 

To be precise using figures from the IMF China's economic output in 1980 at PPP was valued at $414 Billion with a population of 787 million giving a per capita GDP of $420 per person

 

If you combined the output of all the economies of Sub-Saharan Africa at PPP they generated $388 Billion in output with a population of 335 million giving a per capita GDP of $1157 per person.

 

The last time I did the analysis in 2006 the figures were: for China $8,883 Billion PPP GDP with a population of 1,316 million giving a per capita GDP of $6,752 per person.

 

For Sub Saharan Africa PPP GDP $1,543 billion, population 681 million, Per capita GDP $2,266.

 

All these figures have been adjusted for inflation etc. Please note Sub-Saharan Africa's per person output has nearly doubled in the last 25 or so years.

 

Now, Rog, I assume your argument is that the Chinese weren't genetically inferior to sub-sarharan Africans in 1980 in intelligence, ability to work together etc. They were just been kept down by a social system which destroyed people's capacity to improve themselves.

 

This system - Maoist Communism meant the people of China were on average 2.75 times worse off than your average Sub-Saharan African.

 

Thank goodness this system collapsed and the Chinese have been able to stop an iniqitous social system enslaving them in violent poverty and work to improve themselves.

 

Are you going to claim that for Sub-Saharan Africa there is some (apart from in the very long term) unchangeable genetic component which so dominates them that the social structures that exist in Africa aren't relevent to their material condition?

 

I'd love to know how you tease apart the social effects which created poverty in China in 1980 with the genetic ones which you say cause poverty in Africa now.

 

I'd also love you to explain how Jamaica with a population 91% Black has a per capita GDP 25% better than China's.

 

Is the race living in Jamaica so different from the ones living in Africa?

 

I do not doubt that there are social systems existing within nearly all the black communities around the world which make it difficult for them to improve their social position.

 

You say that is down to genetics. I heartilly disagree as there is such variation in outcomes for Black Communities around the world.

 

It is not down to genetics that in 1980 blacks in both Jamaica and Africa were wealthier than the Chinese while today only those in Jamaica are.

 

The social component is far far more important in discussing outcomes and those are much more amenable to change.

[slinkydevil]

 

Rog how can anyone be blamed for killing Christ when the tosser or his dad don't exist in the first place?

 

Are you positive Jesus Christ did not exist?

[censorship]

I've been reading this thread with interest, some fascinating points of view, some well-expressed if controversial opinions and plenty of food for thought. I was thinking of contributing something worthy of the debate, and seeking answers to questions I am left pondering after reading the divergent opinions, but then I read this....

 

The late son of an uncircumcised whore

 

...and now I have a whole different subject to ponder. Why is it relevant to Rog that Arafat's mum hadn't been circumcised? It's a pretty barbaric procedure, female circumcision, and not something I expected him to hold up as a positive. Or is he suggesting Arafat's dad was a prostitute with a foreskin? I've heard and read a lot about Arafat, but the story about his dad being a hooker I had missed.

 

Or is he such a reactionary, hate-mongering bigot that his anger against people with a different skin colour has built up into a steaming rage which has boiled his tiny brain in his bulging, shaven, pink head to the extent his ill-considered thought processes have been totally overwhelmed. Don't worry Rog, just keep hammering the keyboard with your big fat fists while repeating the mantra 'coming over here, taking our jobs' and eventually you'll type something worth reading - it's like the old story of the complete works of Shakespeare eventually being written by an infinite number of monkeys, only in this case its more like a total load of shite being written by one racist wanker.

[Chinahand]

Rog just has such a simplistic view of the founding of Israel. In his mind it was a land of harmony with Jews and Arabs living peacefully together prior to 1948. With the creation of Israel and a Palestian State in 1948, Rog believes any Arabs living in the area didn't want any Palestian rights to be recognised and were tricked into leaving their homes not by war and agression but by the lies of evil PLO agent provocateurs. These half a million odd refugees who then, with no Israeli involvement at all, left their homes, were then quite neutral to the state of Israel before these evil agent provocateurs once again poisoned their minds. Wars, bombing, Israeli permitted massacres etc all have nothing to do with any aminosity they feel. Its all down to Arafat, with Israel a totally innocent party to their hatred.

 

I certainly agree with him that Arafat initially had a Ba'athist pan-nationalist agenda with the initial idea of a Palestine liberated to be part of a Pan Arab empire/Ummah, and that this only later became a more narrow nationalist aspiration for an independent state separate, but equal with its Arab brothers, but that has nothing to do with the fact that whatever most of the Arab population may have wanted in 1948, or 1967 or whenever what they really didn't want was an Israeli state usurping what they saw (countary to the United Nations) as their land.

[jimbms]

I do note how Rog seems to say that Jews are superior racially to Africans. I would be interested to know how he stands on the Falasha the black Jews of Ethiopia who seem to have proven themselves true Jews being direct decendents of King Solomon it seems DNA has proven them to be Levites and then there are the Lemba, the black Jews of South Africa who from DNA testing of their Y chromosone have been proven to have the Cohen Modal Haplotype which not only proves their ancestry of the Lemba clan of Jews put prove they are in fact Buba or leaders of that clan. So come on Rog how can they be both inferior and superior?

[Rog]

Rog, in 1980 China was at a per capita level considerably poorer than sub-Saharan Africa. Was it glaringly obvious then that the Chinese "race" was inferior to the African "race", who were also inferior to the white "race"?

 

China was and because of its size and complexity was and in parts still is emerging from a Feudal / peasant society where per capita capital really has little meaning and so means nothing as a comparison to other Capitalist nations.

 

Moreover sub-Saharan tribes were and still are not even Feudal / peasant societies, they are tribes who have, or in many cased had access to more than subsistence lifestyles. The fact that they have reverted back to tribal societies with all that brings indicates that is the state that the people have thus far genetically evolved to.

 

 

Now, Rog, I assume your argument is that the Chinese weren't genetically inferior to sub-sarharan Africans in 1980 in intelligence, ability to work together etc. They were just been kept down by a social system which destroyed people's capacity to improve themselves.

 

You assume wrongly. The basis for your assumption that the sub-Saharan tribalism is comparable with the Feudal / peasant society of China is wrong.

 

This system - Maoist Communism meant the people of China were on average 2.75 times worse off than your average Sub-Saharan African.

 

Thank goodness this system collapsed and the Chinese have been able to stop an iniqitous social system enslaving them in violent poverty and work to improve themselves.

 

The Maoist regime ended, it had served its purpose. Like the awful Stalinist era achieved its aims, to drag a huge population from feudalism into a modern non-Feudal society in a staggeringly short time, and now those changes made during the Mao period are the foundation that further development is taking place on.

 

Are you going to claim that for Sub-Saharan Africa there is some (apart from in the very long term) unchangeable genetic component which so dominates them that the social structures that exist in Africa aren't relevent to their material condition?

 

Yes.

 

I'd love to know how you tease apart the social effects which created poverty in China in 1980 with the genetic ones which you say cause poverty in Africa now.

 

In the case of China the consequence of Feudalism, in the case of sub-Saharan Africa and with other places where evolution took a different path, precisely that. Evolution takes a path, associated with the environment.

 

The success criteria needed to succeed in a jungle or benign environment where food is there to be picked (almost) is very different from where the environment requires a great deal more in terms of reasoning power, cooperation, invention, and all the attributes that sub-Saharan Africans lack.

 

I

'd also love you to explain how Jamaica with a population 91% Black has a per capita GDP 25% better than China's.

 

See “feudalism” It explains why GDP is a meaningless metric to compare one to the other.

 

Is the race living in Jamaica so different from the ones living in Africa?

 

No, and that is why Jamaica is such an awful crime ridden crap hole of a place.

 

I do not doubt that there are social systems existing within nearly all the black communities around the world which make it difficult for them to improve their social position.

 

Not difficult beyond the difficulties they introduce for themselves by the way they chose to live. In such places they simply don’t improve beyond the bare minimum they need. You’ve only got to visit places such as Brazil to see this first hand.

 

You say that is down to genetics. I heartilly disagree as there is such variation in outcomes for Black Communities around the world.

 

That is your prerogative. It doesn’t make you right. I make the assertion based on facts on the ground, not sentiment.

 

It is not down to genetics that in 1980 blacks in both Jamaica and Africa were wealthier than the Chinese while today only those in Jamaica are.

 

The Chinese are rapidly moving from a non capitalist and feudal society to one where metrics such as GDP and per capita income have meaning and they are doing it damm well.

 

In the case of the less genetically evolved where they were given societies that were capital based and where GDP and per capita income were factors they have reverted to societies where subsistence living is the norm.

 

Look at the mess that Rhodesia is in, look at how South Africa has turned into a mess and a mess that’s getting worse day by day. Look at ALL the once prospering African states that were left with functioning governments, functioning industries, huge opportunities to build on the shoulders of the European who had brought so much to them to build on and improve even more.

 

Yet they did not, and do not. Not because of lack of opportunity, not because of exploitation, because they simply can’t or won’t do what needs to be done to build on what they had.

 

Water, when left to itself, will found its own level.

 

The social component is far far more important in discussing outcomes and those are much more amenable to change.

 

No, what’s born in the blood remains in the blood until it evolves out. Over a couple of generations nature beats the shit out of nurture each and every time.

[Rog]

I do note how Rog seems to say that Jews are superior racially to Africans. I would be interested to know how he stands on the Falasha the black Jews of Ethiopia who seem to have proven themselves true Jews being direct decendents of King Solomon it seems DNA has proven them to be Levites and then there are the Lemba, the black Jews of South Africa who from DNA testing of their Y chromosone have been proven to have the Cohen Modal Haplotype which not only proves their ancestry of the Lemba clan of Jews put prove they are in fact Buba or leaders of that clan. So come on Rog how can they be both inferior and superior?

 

As far as I recall Ethiopia is not sub-Saharan which is the area that I have been commenting on.

 

Moreover the Lemba are not Jewish despite their claim, though it is quite possible that Arab traders mated with the negroes so introducing the genetic markers.

 

And the Cohen Modal Haplotype is a marker, named not after a unique Haplotype to the Cohen tribe but because that was the first group was related to in the lab, is a Haplotype common amongst many communities in the Middle East.

 

Another point is the inference that I claim that Jews are superior to Africans.

 

Wrong on BOTH counts.

 

Firstly I do not claim that Jews as a race are superior to any race, simply that all races are different and not in some way one race or one group of races an absolute and overall superior race against which all other races must be judged.

 

Secondly because racial superiority is a relative thing. I would certainly not be racially best suited to the African jungle or veldt or to living in the high Arctic, in all cases I would be genetically and so racially inferior to the native population who have evolved to suit their environment.

 

All I DO assert is that universal racial equality is NOT a valid proposition and that includes physical and mental capabilities and strengths and predispositions.

[Rog]

 

 

The late son of an uncircumcised whore

 

...and now I have a whole different subject to ponder. Why is it relevant to Rog that Arafat's mum hadn't been circumcised? It's a pretty barbaric procedure, female circumcision, and not something I expected him to hold up as a positive. Or is he suggesting Arafat's dad was a prostitute with a foreskin? I've heard and read a lot about Arafat, but the story about his dad being a hooker I had missed.

 

 

 

If you knew Arabs, had lived amongst them, fought against them, spoke Arabic, and understood Islam, you would know that to describe someone as “the son of an uncircumcised whore” is pretty much as an offensive manner in which it was possible to refer to them as in an Arabic context.

[jimbms]

Chinahand: Give up he it to racialy inferior to see the truth,

 

Censorship: Don't let it concern you he has never lived amongst Arab peoples, and by that I mean within an arab houshold, nor does he understand them, so ignore him he is just a biggoted kike.

 

Rog: no matter what you say the Falasha and Lemba have been accepted by most of the worlds leading anthrapologists and genetically proven to be of the Jewish race, it matters not that a traveling Jew screwed an African woman many centuries ago the offspring is still genetically Jewish same as there is not a single Jew alive who can prove 100% purity in their genetic makeup. You cannot pick who belongs to your people based on your own biggoted prejudice.

[Rog]

Y’know, you’ve evidently got a problem in understanding what you read. Is this a thing that caused you many problems throughout your schooling?

 

For example I refer to where you wrote I would be interested to know how he stands on the Falasha the black Jews of Ethiopia

 

and my reply was

 

“As far as I recall Ethiopia is not sub-Saharan which is the area that I have been commenting on”

 

Does that really need further explanation to you?

 

The funny thing is that you probably don’t realise that by writing

 

“(snip) to racialy inferior to see the truth” and “a biggoted kike” what you have exhibited is racism, REAL racism.

 

And let’s not even bother with the grammatical and spelling errors, that’s probably just another manifestation of the problem that plagued your school years.

[censorship]

to describe someone as “the son of an uncircumcised whore” is pretty much as an offensive manner in which it was possible to refer to them as in an Arabic context.

 

No, it isn't.

Typing furiously and through a mist of hate-filled, racist anger you have made a mistake and not read back what you have typed. Now, to cover your embarrassment, you are trying to claim this mistake was deliberate and that you have some deep understanding of Arabic culture.

You are a deeply embittered man with a fear of failure which causes you to refuse to accept your mistakes. It is probably something to do with never living up to dad's expectations, or a complicated pseudo-sexual relationship with your mother. Sadly, another aspect of this character flaw is that you feel the need to blame others for your social awkwardness and the limited emotional and fiscal success of your life - which is why you are filled with such bile towards black people. Rather than fixing what is wrong with you so you can make something of your life, it is easier to just blmae another racial group and claim that's why you can't get on.

You're classic racist.

[Stavros]

The funny thing is that you probably don’t realise that by writing

 

“(snip) to racialy inferior to see the truth” and “a biggoted kike” what you have exhibited is racism, REAL racism.

So calling a racist a racist is being racist?

[jimbms]

No rog that wasn't racism that was intentional sarcastic provocation you knob.

 

Oh and I never mentioned you reference to the sub-Saharan, I was refering to all your previous posts where you said the Negroid African race was inferior, and thus asking your opinion on Black Jews.

 

As for spelling and grammar, of course it is bad due to dyslexia, what's your excuse? But on mathematics and sciences I rarely make mistakes. I take it next you will be saying the likes of our resident advocate John Wright is inferior due to his bad spelling and grammar.

 

I will give you on good point, you are entertaining and provoking you is leaving some other poor sod alone, mind you it's no challenge really.