Killing And Battle

[La_Dolce_Vita]

An very interesting but hardly surprising matter is how US Army (4th Infantry Division under Odierno) dealt with civilians as part of their so-called counter-insurgency operations. Pretty sickening stuff to read.

[jimbms]

Firstly LDV don't you think that the simple matter of providing a link would assist your argument. Secondly, nothing the US army does against civilians would suprise me.

[mæŋksmən]

America trying a different strategy for hearts and minds instead of grab them by the balls and the rest will follow.

 

 

An Open Letter of Reconciliation and Responsibility to the Iraqi People: From Current and Former Members of the US Military

 

Peace be with you,

 

To all of those who were injured or lost loved ones during the July 2007 Baghdad shootings depicted in the "Collateral Murder" Wikileaks video:

 

We write to you, your family, and your community with awareness that our words and actions can never restore your losses.

 

We are both soldiers who occupied your neighborhood for 14 months. Ethan McCord pulled your daughter and son from the van, and when doing so, saw the faces of his own children back home. Josh Stieber was in the same company but was not there that day, though he contributed to the your pain, and the pain of your community on many other occasions.

 

There is no bringing back all that was lost. What we seek is to learn from our mistakes and do everything we can to tell others of our experiences and how the people of the United States need to realize we have done and are doing to you and the people of your country. We humbly ask you what we can do to begin to repair the damage we caused.

 

We have been speaking to whoever will listen, telling them that what was shown in the Wikileaks video only begins to depict the suffering we have created. From our own experiences, and the experiences of other veterans we have talked to, we know that the acts depicted in this video are everyday occurrences of this war: this is the nature of how U.S.-led wars are carried out in this region.

 

We acknowledge our part in the deaths and injuries of your loved ones as we tell Americans what we were trained to do and what we carried out in the name of "god and country". The soldier in the video said that your husband shouldn't have brought your children to battle, but we are acknowledging our responsibility for bringing the battle to your neighborhood, and to your family. We did unto you what we would not want done to us.

 

More and more Americans are taking responsibility for what was done in our name. Though we have acted with cold hearts far too many times, we have not forgotten our actions towards you. Our heavy hearts still hold hope that we can restore inside our country the acknowledgment of your humanity, that we were taught to deny.

 

Our government may ignore you, concerned more with its public image. It has also ignored many veterans who have returned physically injured or mentally troubled by what they saw and did in your country. But the time is long overdue that we say that the value of our nation's leaders no longer represent us. Our secretary of defense may say the U.S. won't lose its reputation over this, but we stand and say that our reputation's importance pales in comparison to our common humanity.

 

We have asked our fellow veterans and service-members, as well as civilians both in the United States and abroad, to sign in support of this letter, and to offer their names as a testimony to our common humanity, to distance ourselves from the destructive policies of our nation's leaders, and to extend our hands to you.

 

With such pain, friendship might be too much to ask. Please accept our apology, our sorrow, our care, and our dedication to change from the inside out. We are doing what we can to speak out against the wars and military policies responsible for what happened to you and your loved ones. Our hearts are open to hearing how we can take any steps to support you through the pain that we have caused.

 

Solemnly and Sincerely,

Josh Stieber, former specialist, U.S. Army

Ethan McCord, former specialist, U.S. Army

 

 

http://www.truthout.org/soldiers-wikileaks-company-apologize-violence58714

[jimbms]

What a load of unadultarated bullshit

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Firstly LDV don't you think that the simple matter of providing a link would assist your argument. Secondly, nothing the US army does against civilians would suprise me.

I didn't read on the internet. But read about Odierno if you're interested and the stuff they used to do civilians. It isn't a secret.

[MilitantDogOwner]

I have stayed quiet on this subject to see what others would post first. Like was said by the OP, there are those of us who have served, and there are those of us who have opinions.

 

From my own training, and experiences, in a situation such as Iraq and Afghanistan, where the person in front of you could be friend or foe but you have no way of knowing until it is too late, reaction is everything.

 

In a contact situation, the matter comes down to shoot or dont shoot. You dont have time to debate the moral and social implications. You dont have the advantage of weeks to go over every last detail of video footage, photographs and witness statement. Your one bloke with his weapon, in a hostile region surrounded by thousands of potential opponents.

 

Also failure to act can be just as bad as acting. Fail to react and that man you thought was pulling fruit from the back of a cart, has a weapon in his hand and has killed half your mates.

 

And that innocent looking woman who has walked upto you with open arms....detonates the explosives around her waist.

 

Watch the film "Rules of Engagement" starring Samuel L. Jackson and Tommy Lee jones. Awesome example of what I'm trying to get across.

 

Let us not forget the psycological aspect as well. The pressure the man on the ground is under is intense. Imagine your in a room with 100 doors leading out of it. You are told that the last man to enter that room before you was shot dead by a person entering from one of those doors. Your not told who the shooter was, why they shot the first man or which door they came through. And then your given a gun.

 

Once I was lucky to take part in a simulator run involving a video set that showed real life footage and which reacted to our weapons fire. The first simulation we are walking through a normal suburban area when we encounter a woman working under the bonnet of a car. As we approach, she turns, produces a pistol from the engine compartment and shots us. Not one of us had even cocked our weapons let along shot back.

 

When they ran the simulation again, we were ready for her. As we approached the woman and she started to turn, each rifle was cocked and fired in a heart beat. Unfortunately the woman was holding a grease gun this time and not a pistol. Luckily for us it was not real, the first time around we would all be dead and the second time around we would be up for murder charges.

 

Like I said, being on the ground at that moment is a world apart from picking over the pieces safe at home.

[mæŋksmən]

Well spoken.

[jimbms]

I fully agree with your point there MDO but I do still think that tha Americans did do their usual over reaction followed by a tad excesive force in that situation and believe has troops of any other nation been involved the outcome may have been similar but only after little more confirmation and thought.