Did We Upset The Irish Over E-Borders?

[Cronky]

Irish committee assesses e-border proposals

 

A series of measures which would allow the Isle of Man to be included inside the United Kingdom's new e-borders security system are being studied by Northern Ireland's Human Rights Commission. The Manx government is proposing legislation which would mean air and sea routes between the Island and the UK wouldn't be subject to the screening of all travellers. However, controls would be introduced on routes between the Isle of Man and the Irish Republic. Policy worker for the commission Daniel Holden has written to the Standing Committee of Tynwald which is looking into the issue:

 

Good init? The Manx Government wants to set up e-Borders controls to Ireland and, er, forgets to ask all the Irish if they are happy about that!

 

Public consultation at:

 

Moves to include Island inside UK e-border

[jimbms]

Well my vote goes for not joining theis e-border fiasco, at least that way we have control over our own security and not have to use an already proven unworkable system.

 

 

[Slim]

Well my vote goes for not joining theis e-border fiasco, at least that way we have control over our own security and not have to use an already proven unworkable system.

 

We have a choice, passport to england, or passport to the Republic. It's sensible to go with the option that will inconvenience the least.

 

 

 

[Cronky]

We have a choice, passport to england, or passport to the Republic. It's sensible to go with the option that will inconvenience the least.

 

If you listened to the guy from Ulster speak on Mandate at about 0810 you would have heard use the phrase 'think logically around the issues'.

 

If you start checking passports from the Isle of Man to Southern Ireland you will then end up checking passports from Northern Ireland to the Isle of Man. This is because the border between the South and the North will remain open. Therefore . . . You will also have to check passports from Belfast to the Isle of Man. Which, of course, means you will have to check passports from Belfast to the mainland UK too.

 

Why? Because if you let people fly from the UK to Belfast without a passport then they can slip into Southern Ireland across the land border and no one need know. Once they start checking passports from the UK to Ulster they will have to check passports from the UK to the Isle of Man.

 

It's stitch up and it's taken the guy from Ulster to work it all out.

[The Old Git]

if you let people fly from the UK to Belfast

 

Belfast is already in the UK.

 

The whole situation is a bit of a mess

[Slim]

If you start checking passports from the Isle of Man to Southern Ireland you will then end up checking passports from Northern Ireland to the Isle of Man. This is because the border between the South and the North will remain open. Therefore . . . You will also have to check passports from Belfast to the Isle of Man. Which, of course, means you will have to check passports from Belfast to the mainland UK too.

 

Why? Because if you let people fly from the UK to Belfast without a passport then they can slip into Southern Ireland across the land border and no one need know. Once they start checking passports from the UK to Ulster they will have to check passports from the UK to the Isle of Man.

 

It's stitch up and it's taken the guy from Ulster to work it all out.

 

 

 

Doesn't change what I said. If it's going ahead, we have to make a choice, and being inside e-borders is more convenient for most of our travel than not.

[manshimajin]

Doesn't change what I said. If it's going ahead, we have to make a choice, and being inside e-borders is more convenient for most of our travel than not.

I think the issue is not what to do when it goes ahead - your opinion would be correct then - but what to do at this stage to bring more sense to this stupid idea.

 

This thread repeats and updates what has been said over and over again.

 

I looked for the 'WHY?' of e.borders to replace the Government of Ireland Act based access between the UK and Ireland. The answer the UK Government has come up with unilaterally is that there is a clear and present threat of criminal and terrorist activity between the two legislatures. If it is really clear and present why have they been dragging their feet for years, and will be doing so for years into the future, on dealing with these twin snakes in the grass? I suspect that the actual reason is that coincidentally the implementation occurs at the same time that the current UK Government plans to introduce ID Cards for its citizens.

 

IMO the UKG should either bite the bullet and sign up to the Schengen Agreement, which the Irish Government have said they would fully support, or they should drop the whole idea as it is frankly unworkable between the Republic and Northern Ireland unless the border checkpoints are re-introduced - which the UK Government have already said is not going to happen - or the UKG cedes Northern Ireland to the Irish Republic which might be a 'courageous' step to take.

 

It is another of those colour and movement jobs which is a waste of public money - but creates more jobs in the burgeoning UK public service. One can only hope that at least the Northern Irish process will identify just how ludicrous and porous this whole idea is and set about undoing the bugger's muddle it is becoming.

[Albert Tatlock]

If they 'closed' the border between NI and Ireland, the terrorist sh1t might hit the fan again IMO. I'm sure this is a major much unsaid concern in all this.

 

Labour and the Lib Dems are talking of border controls, border police and 'counting in and out' etc.

 

The NI/Irish border complicates the problem.

[jimbms]

We have a choice, passport to england, or passport to the Republic. It's sensible to go with the option that will inconvenience the least.

 

If you listened to the guy from Ulster speak on Mandate at about 0810 you would have heard use the phrase 'think logically around the issues'.

 

If you start checking passports from the Isle of Man to Southern Ireland you will then end up checking passports from Northern Ireland to the Isle of Man. This is because the border between the South and the North will remain open. Therefore . . . You will also have to check passports from Belfast to the Isle of Man. Which, of course, means you will have to check passports from Belfast to the mainland UK too.

 

Why? Because if you let people fly from the UK to Belfast without a passport then they can slip into Southern Ireland across the land border and no one need know. Once they start checking passports from the UK to Ulster they will have to check passports from the UK to the Isle of Man.

 

It's stitch up and it's taken the guy from Ulster to work it all out.

So the short answer is it will cost a few million quid in pointless beaurocracy to end up in the exact same position as we are now.

[manshimajin]

So the short answer is it will cost a few million quid in pointless beaurocracy to end up in the exact same position as we are now.

Probaly more than a 'few million' if it were to be effective - and of course to some extent we focus on 'individuals' passing between the UK and Ireland but you then need to think about the extra checks on trade movements too.

[Slim]

I think the issue is not what to do when it goes ahead - your opinion would be correct then - but what to do at this stage to bring more sense to this stupid idea.

 

Sure, but we've got pretty much fek all to do with that decision though. This issue is between the UK and the Republic of Ireland, we've just got to pick a side if it goes ahead. On that basis, we're best sticking with the UK.

 

 

 

 

 

[jimbms]

In reality we could say bollocks to both and save money

[Slim]

In reality we could say bollocks to both and save money

 

Would it save money? If the uk goes eborders and we have to put in passport controls, won't that cost?

[jimbms]

In reality we could say bollocks to both and save money

 

Would it save money? If the uk goes eborders and we have to put in passport controls, won't that cost?

 

Don't we already have passport control for non uk residents or do we just let anyone in without checks? I would guess the cost of checking entrants ourselves would be a lot cheaper than paying the uk especially if we chanrge for visa's for those who require them. Why should be bow down to the UK, if you want UK rules then go live there.

[Rog]

In my opinion people traveling to and from the Isle of Man to or from any EU country should be required to show a passport at the EU border. There should also be a requirement for all Manx people to have a work permit to work in any EU country including the UK.

 

You don't want to be a part of the UK? Fine. Pay the price.