mæŋksmən Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 This is how israel sees itself. Their gods chosen children, and as such the rest of us are inferior, they genuinely believe they are above international law, as international law isnt their highest soverign. The Six-Day War of June 1967 resulted in the the capture of East Jerusalem and other territories of the Biblical Land of Israel. A religious claim provided strong justification for those who wished to hold on to the occupied territories: If the State of Israel was viewed as the unfolding of a Messianic scenario, then the miraculous victory of the Six-Day War was an essential stage in that process. The territories belong to the Jewish people (i.e., the State of Israel) by Divine decree and they may not be handed over to foreign hands. The issue of territories, viewed in an eschatological context, became the defining feature for broad segments of religious Zionism in the post-1967 era. Most significantly, Jewish tradition affirms at least five things about the Messiah. He will: be a descendant of King David, gain sovereignty over the land of Israel, gather the Jews there from the four corners of the earth, restore them to full observance of Torah law, and, as a grand finale, bring peace to the whole world. Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg, head of the Kever Yossev Yeshiva (school of Talmud) in Nablus stated, "The blood of the Jewish people is loved by the Lord; it is therefore redder and their life is preferable." The killing by a Jew of a non-Jew, i.e. a Palestinian, is considered essentially a good deed, and Jews should therefore have no compunction about it. Source: Yitzhak Ginsburg, "Five General Religious Duties Which Lie Behind the Act of the Saintly, Late Rabbi Baruch Goldstein, May his Blood be Avenged" http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/gush.html The Jewish Virtual Library is a division of the American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."-Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum." In an editorial in the august Wall Street Journal, the flagship publication of America's corporate elite, Israeli columnist Hillel Halkin called for bombing, kidnapping and torturing Palestinians: "I can make careful use of the intelligence at Israel's disposal to identify, locate and kill...with minimal loss of innocent life, by such means as booby-trapping their telephones, rocketing their cars and offices, etc. In a word, assassinate them. Sounds good to me. "...hold a trial with the help of witnesses similary abducted from the Palestinian territories. If necessary it (Israel) should apply physical pressure (a euphemism for torture) to these witnesses..." The Wall Street Journal, August 28, 2001, p. A14. During a sermon preceding the 2001 Passover holiday, the influential Israeli Rabbi Ovadia Yosef exclaimed: "May the Holy Name visit retribution on the Arab heads, and cause their seed to be lost, and annihilate them." He added: "It is forbidden to have pity on them. We must give them missiles with relish, annihilate them. Evil ones, damnable ones." Source: Ha'aretz April 12, 2001 "We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel...Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours."-Rafael Eitan, chief of staff of the Israel Defense Forces, "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."-Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998. http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine5.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acorn Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Let me just get this straight: a flotilla of ships is in international waters when it is attacked by Israeli commandos. As is the right of any vessel in that situation, it resists a hostile boarding in international waters. Israel then tries to declare that the violence should be blamed on those who resisted the illegal boarding. I'm sure that Rog (in the finest tradition of Israeli spin doctors) will put a different slant on this, but the fact is that Israel seems hell-bent on losing the few friends it has left in the international community. Let me get this straight A bunch of 'peace' activists mainly of Turkish nationality decide to take 'aid ' to the beleaguered Palestinians. 10,000 tonnes of aid to be exact . This it seemed needed 700 people to deliver. Now bearing in mind that the Turks are at present bombing the bejasus out of the Kurds ( who would like their own state) How would they feel if a bunch of Israelis headed a flotilla of humanitarian 'aid' to the kurds. Also Gaza is not blockaded. 15000 tonnes of aid goes through EVERY WEEK! Look at the TV there are healthy lively youngsters running about - no one is starving! Sick people are treated in Israeli hospitals the same as any other patient. They have just built an Olympic sized swimming pool there. Yet the Palestinians funded by the gullible west carries on its old song of grievance and victimhood. More damage is done to its people by the fanatics that flourish under the Hamas government ( they burned down a childrens home a couple of weeks back - cant have the kiddies having fun - anyway it was only funded by the UNWRA people - they will give us another! Also Egypt has the same border restrictions - blockade ( yet no one mentions this) and only yesterday decided to open them for a while. There is a crossing at Rafah they dont have to go through Israel The entire exercise is so obviously engineered from start to finish. Firstly the well organized demonstrations in Turkey Everyone correctly turned out with appropriate anti Israeli headbands and piles of Israeli flags for the burning of. Now tell me who has stacks of Israeli flags all ready for burning in the streets? Turkey has obviously allied itself with Iran and intends to ignite the Middle East. There is no other reason for such transparent provocation. The Turkish 'humanitarian ' group has connections with Hamas and Hezbollah. All the public 'outrage' again is so biased against Israel. Where is the outrage for the Kurds whom the Turks are bombing? The outrage for China - who occupies Tibet For Darfur where hundreds die everyday - not for want of spices or plastic toys but for want of food. Not only that but they being raped and murdered by the Islamic regime there - where is the world outrage? But hey ho this is all so boring much more fashionable to don a checkered khafiah and look the part! The gullible liberal lefties in the west has fell for this hook line and sinker From which right wing loony web site did you copy that? One thing is for sure you didn't write it yourself. EVERY LAST WORD I don't believe you. Israel has given the world the most advances in both medicine and computer technology so have a think which will you miss first! . Yeah right, puzzling thing about Israel is how readily it's embraced state terrorism and fascism. Particularly bearing in mind how the Jews were treated by another terrorist and fascist state about 70 odd years ago. Without the support of crazy US right wing US Christian 'end timers', Israel would, deservedly, be in dire straits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellyup Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 I dont care if you dont believe me but i understand too many words may be hard for you to understand so heres a nice amusing little you tube saying why you should definitely boycott Isreal and its products enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saeky9I5T9c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellyup Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Its 10,000 tonnes less than goes into Gaza from Isreal EVERYWEEK. 700 people why ? What are they going to do? What does it cost to transport and feed them on the boat ? Wouldnt it be better to actually transport more aid to the palestinians if that is the intention? Who pays for the passage and keep of these 700? Answe the Turks it was a turkisd boat that casued the problem For what reason? the Turks are not known as humanitarians they are killing kurds for goodness sake! [/b] Oh, so you are stating that the purpose of the 'mission' was also political. That is well known. Nobody would deny that. It is a move designed to embarrass Israel. It isn't simply about giving aid. One boat doesn't set off to deliver aid that will sort out the area's problems for a long time. It is designed to publicise to problems in Gaza. Problems caused by Israel. Right so its not just about giving aid ? Funny all the 'peace provokists say it was - you cant have it both ways. Still we know that a paltry 10000 tonnes and 700 surplus to requirement passengers doesnt sound like an aid run. Its was a move to embarrass Israel?. No it was a move to provoke Israel by an Islamic group that has contacts to Hamas and hebollah (IHH) The Turks are not interested in humanitarian aid - as i said they are bombing the kurds who are in exactly the position of the Palestinians - not giving them aid are they? Iran wishes to ignite the ME now it has co opted Turkey who are peeved because we have dilly dallied in letting them into the EU Do we want these people in the EU? These flag burning fanatics? Make your own judgment. Starving people cannot run or swim they are too lethargic to move. Think Darfur and Rwanda But who has argued that the people in Gaza are ALL starving? Again you cant have it all ways they are either starving or they are not. And everyone knows they are not - just look at any news report on the TV - they are all well fed and healthy - cared for in Israeli hospitals when they are ill. I see you you will be happy to contribute to a charity that builds facilities for the Children of Gaza THAT FANATICS NOT ISRAELIS BURNED DOWN! ( they do this because they do not wish the children to have a normal life - it is the fanatics fostered under the aegis of Hamas that is destroying the lives of the people of Gaza. Am I happy to contribute to that charity? Erm...no. I am merely explaining that it is a tit for tat conflict. The Israeli military has no concern for civilian deaths when it uses violence in Palestine. How can talk of children not having a life because of the indoctrination and actions of Hamas when Palestinians civilians live in a society where through the inital Israeli opposition to a bi-national state and now the opposition to a sovereign palestinian state you have a situation where civilians live under the threat of violence from both the Israeli military and Palestinian militia? They only have to stop firing rockets at Israel and there will be peace. This incident has been designed to derail the latest PEACE TALKS. There is ALWAYS and incident to derail peace talks because Hamas does not want peace it wants the DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL . It makes no secret of this it is in its charter. Rubbish the Egyptians can open their crossing to their Arab brothers ANYTIME THEY LIKE! Of course they dont like because a) they don't want the troublesome Palestinians as their problem ( despite the fact that Gaza was under Egyptian rule previously)b) because they do an extremely good trade in black market trade through the tunnel system. Arab brothers? I think you are forgetting exactly who determines border control. It isn't the Egyptian public.You also seem to be missing the point that Gaza is not under Egyptian jurisdiction. Hello there is an Egyptian crossing the RAFAH crossing and yes it is controlled by the EGYPTIANS by the Egyptian GOVERNMENT the same as any other government . Dont you understand its the Egyptian crossing theirs to controls as they will. They have also built a security wall to keep the Gazaans out. They are afraid of Hamas and its power if too many palestinians get into Egypt - Hamas is an off shoot of the Muslim Brotherhood a powerful and fanatical political force in Egypt. You want to see the ME ignite its not about the Palestinians, the Arab nations couldn't give a monkeys about the Palestinians - they dont even like them! Iran wishes to take control of the ME the Palestinians and the Isrealis are both in their ways PatsiesWell yeah, you're right. But what's the relevance here? The relevance is its NOT ABOUT AID ( some poor do gooders on board probably think that it is) its not about breaking the blockade of Gaza. Its about destabilizing the region so that Iran and its co powers can gain full control over the entire ME. The video looks pretty authentic to me peace activist dont attack soldiers with iron bars .These were Islamic fanatics intent on causing trouble. I don't know what to say. What a silly comment.Do you think peace activists are total pacifists? Yes that is what they are saying they are ( we can tell from the video they these were not.) they were hard line Islamist fanatics prepared for fight and prepared to die and take the Israelis with them. The Israeli military boarded their boat carrying guns when they were international waters. By all means pass judgement if a ship came to Gaza loaded with weapons. But this was an unarmed crew, carrying aid, and was international waters. The Israel military invited a violent response. No they didnt 5 ships came in without a problem in peace this one was prepared to fight and provoke an incident. The Palestinians have had many opportunities to have their own state . Oh? And what stopped them? Their leaders. They could have had a state from day one in 1948 they were offered it by the League of Nations - exactly like Israel but instead chose to declare war ( with six other arab countries on the new state. they could have had a state in 2000 Barak offered them 93% of everything they wanted and unbelievably they turned it down and chose intifada and death and suffering for their people. They are in the main tyrannical Islamic theocracies that oppress their own people - unlike Israel which is still the only real democracy in the ME.You think the Palestinians were living in a democratic state? Do explain how the Palestinians were benefitting from democracy. The palestinians in Gaza are not - although they democratically elected Hamas and have lived to rue it. they are subject to increasingly harsh rules against women and Hamas uses women and children as human shields. Israeli Arabs who live in Israel have exactly the same rights as any other Israeli. there are Arab Israelis in the Knesset and Israel is the only country in the ME where women - Arab women have exactly the same rights as anyone else. It is to distract attention from their own despotic regimes and the oppression of their own people they use Israel as a scapegoat.[/b] Yet you have mentioned that it was Turkish groups who arranged the mission to Gaza. What despotic regimes are you referring to? But explain this point, because it has flown over my head. Iran - hangs gays and minors from cranes is ruled by a theocracy women are second class citizens. they have no vote Turkey while more developed is killing kurds and women are subject to Islamic law. The group involved in the flotilla were hard liners with contacts to Hezbollah and Hamas Militants these are fanatical Islamic terrorist groups All the rest of the ME countries Syria Lebanon are under harsh dictatorships the leaders are not democratically elected by the people. Saudi Arabia - practices gender apartheid and violates most humans rights but its wealthy rulers are adept at keeping the people oppressed and all these countries use Israel as a distraction to keep the people from complaining about their excesses. Why do you think that not one bar Jordan has given the Palestinian refugees citizenship? The lands of Arabia are vast plenty of room for a few more brother Arabs but in 60 years they have not done this. There are no other 60 year old refugees in the entire world ! Jordan is an exception to this in that it is ruled by a forward thinking ( half English ) king who has made peace with Israel and all the Palestinian who were refugees there have were given citizenship decades ago. Consequently Jordan has done well with with trade agreements and joint industrial development with Israel You might like to watch this too the music is very nice as well ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saeky9I5T9c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Don't tell me bellyache, we can blame all this on the collapse of KSF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellyup Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Don't tell me bellyache, we can blame all this on the collapse of KSF. Hi Twoturds No as far as I know this has nothing to do with KSF ! However you may know something I don't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 However you may know something I don't! That's not hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mæŋksmən Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 I wonder if they will board the irish boat thats on its way to gaza with aid / press and nobel prize winner/s, the shit will hit the fan if they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellyup Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 I wonder if they will board the irish boat thats on its way to gaza with aid / press and nobel prize winner/s, the shit will hit the fan if they do. One nobel prize winner actually. Why dont they redirect to Darfur where people are really starving and being raped and murdered by the hundreds? Answer not fashionable enough! What shit and what fan ? Or is the Irish army polishing up their shillelaghs as we speak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 This is all about politics and very little to do with Humanitarian aid. The Israelis have said the MV Rachel Corrie can dock at Ashoud, have its cargo inspected - concrete and other "dual use" items can be donated to UN approved projects, humanitarian aid freely distributed. But having the Israelis cooperating with the supply of humanitarian aid isn't what the activists want - they want press coverage of a violent confrontation with an Israeli over-reaction. Unfortunately both sides look likely to play their part. Touch wood the Israelis will be less violent this time, but no doubt it looks like a confrontation is brewing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mæŋksmən Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Just for you, the blockade starts on page 9. http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellyup Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 This is very funny ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mæŋksmən Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 bellyup. Even if there is any truth in it being activist led, there is still no excuse for murder. The murders cannot be claimed as self-defense when the israelis knew the crew had chains etc and were making threatening motions alledgedly. The ship was in international waters and the israelis had no legaL right to board her anyway. Once the israelis were aware that they were going to meet with resistance to their boarding the ship and they choose to send down their soldiers onto a boat where the probability that they would be attacked by an angry mob were so overwhelming, then they cannot claim that anything the soldiers did was in self-defense. There were several ways they could of brought the boat to a halt without the loss of life. And all to block the this list of banned goods and many more. sage cardamom cumin coriander ginger jam halva vinegar nutmeg chocolate fruit preserves seeds and nuts biscuits and sweets potato chips gas for soft drinks dried fruit fresh meat horses donkeys goats cattle chicks This fella was seen broadcasting during the attack before all communications were cut off. They were killing people from the helicopters even before an israeli set foot on the boat. At the time of this interview, shortly after his release from captivity, he had not seen any of the Israeli propaganda videos. http://english.aljazeera.net/video/middleeast/2010/06/201063123021327499.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellyup Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 bellyup. Even if there is any truth in it being activist led, there is still no excuse for murder. The murders cannot be claimed as self-defense when the israelis knew the crew had chains etc and were making threatening motions alledgedly. Sorry mate its all on video there is no alleged about it! why should the Isrealis commit suicide just to please the world? Once the israelis were aware that they were going to meet with resistance to their boarding the ship and they choose to send down their soldiers onto a boat where the probability that they would be attacked by an angry mob were so overwhelming, then they cannot claim that anything the soldiers did was in self-defense. Angry mob - I thought they were PEACE activists? There were several ways they could of brought the boat to a halt without the loss of life. Yes indeed and hamas refused them all . Egypt offered to take the flotilla and send the stuff through the Rafah crossing - No they WANTED a confrontation with Israel And all to block the this list of banned goods and many more. sage cardamom cumin coriander ginger jam halva vinegar nutmeg chocolate fruit preserves seeds and nuts biscuits and sweets potato chips gas for soft drinks dried fruit fresh meat horses donkeys goats cattle chicks hmmm jam, chocies, biscuits, sweets , soft drinks and crisps No wonder they all have such good teeth! We know they had donkeys on the peace flotilla but horses and cattle? There are horses and donkeys and chickens in Gaza - people usually BREED their own believe it or not. They can of course bring all these things in from Egypt through at the Rafah crossings . Also the average Arab housewife grows her own herbs! I understood that they had large quantities of wheel chairs ( which Hamas rejected ) out of date medical supplies ( Gazaans prefer to go to Israeli hospitals for treatment thank you and cement ( Israel didn't let this through.) so Hamas declared if we cant have the cement you can stuff your wheelchairs ( or words to that effect) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acorn Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 I dont care if you dont believe me but i understand too many words may be hard for you to understand so heres a nice amusing little you tube saying why you should definitely boycott Isreal and its products enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saeky9I5T9c I can cope with big words, same as I can recognize right wing nutters. Incidentally are you Rog in disguise? On second thoughts probably not, Rog may well be yet another right wing nutter but at least he can spell and use grammar correctly. Neither does he cut and paste and pretend it's his own work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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