Israeli 'intervention'

[La_Dolce_Vita]

"When people criticize Zionists they mean Jews. You are talking anti-Semitism."

 

Martin Luther King

Luther King really said that? I must be wrong then. I have to ask whether you can explain EXACTLY how zionism is anti-semitic.

 

Rather foolish since it only become a state in 1948

Did you properly read what I said?

 

Sez you!

That would of course mean that the other created states made from the partition of the Ottoman empire will also have to be dismantled.

You don't know what I am talking about. I am talking about the creation of a JEWISH nation state where none existed before. This creation of this state would have and did result in Arabs coming under the control of this new JEWISH state. That can't be adequately justified. What about the existence of a state that is representative of the Muslim population?

Re UN

The UN is a deeply flawed entity it has no power and no credibility.

On the whole it is. But it can determine when international law has been breached and it does carry some weight. But it depends what the issue is and who backs those decisions.

[pongo]

the fact is Israel as a civilised 'sic' nation deems it acceptable to prevent any aid going to children by means of a blockade, they have stated that they even will not allow ships loaded, checked and crewed by UN personnel through, how can civilians.

 

What about the Turkish blockade of Armenia?

What about their childen?

Why arent the Turkish activists sending aid there?

Why arent the liberal lefties jumping up and down about that blockade?

What about a sovereign state for Kurdistan?

Can't they have a state?

What does the international community think of that?

 

Israel armed Turkey. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

 

The idea of a sovereign Kurdistan, like Zionism, is relatively recent. It was especially stirred up by the USSR as a power play. The idea of people having native or sovereign homelands is pretty weird IMO. We're all basically nomadic.

[jimbms]

Cheers Pongo: same answer. bellyache as he said just because one nation does it does not give the right for another to do it, this thread is about the blockade by Israel and the ill treatment and murder of civilians by them, if you wish to discuss Turkey and its similar behavior then start a new thread on it.

[bellyup]

Cheers Pongo: same answer. bellyache as he said just because one nation does it does not give the right for another to do it, this thread is about the blockade by Israel and the ill treatment and murder of civilians by them, if you wish to discuss Turkey and its similar behavior then start a new thread on it.

 

Twoturds I happen to think that it is relevant.

Its show that the Turks have no real humanitarian reasons to break the Blockade of Gaza it was sole to create an incident.

 

You may like to see these pictures published in Turkeys English newspapers and taken by the activists themselves.

 

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/g.php?p=1&g=55#gallerytop

 

The man on the floor covered in blood is an Israeli soldier

[La_Dolce_Vita]

If these were are not conscripts, then it serves them right! Now, can we have photos of the corpses of those people who were shot please?

[bellyup]

No it doesn't serve them right, its sad this man was injured by so called PEACE activists.

 

 

Everyone in Israel does military service didn't you know?

[bellyup]

"When people criticize Zionists they mean Jews. You are talking anti-Semitism."

 

Martin Luther King

Luther King really said that? I must be wrong then.

 

 

Yes you are.

 

 

I am talking about the creation of a JEWISH nation state where none existed before. This creation of this state would have and did result in Arabs coming under the control of this new JEWISH state. That can't be adequately justified. What about the existence of a state that is representative of the Muslim population?

 

 

 

They have several Jordan, Iraq Iran Syria Lebanon,Egypt Saudi Arabia Kuwait + the emirates

Re UN

The UN is a deeply flawed entity it has no power and no credibility.On the whole it is. But it can determine when international law has been breached and it does carry some weight. But it depends what the issue is and who backs those decisions.

 

No it doesn't.

It has no power to enforce anything.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

They have several Jordan, Iraq Iran Syria Lebanon,Egypt Saudi Arabia Kuwait + the emirates

What, they should leave their OWN lands and move across the borders to other countries?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

No it doesn't serve them right, its sad this man was injured by so called PEACE activists.

Everyone in Israel does military service didn't you know?

Yes, they do military service, but I was questioning whether these troops are ones who have chosen to remain in their armed forces. If so, they deserved what they go. As for the crew being peace activists, all I can say is that the boarding party must have got a bit of suprise then.

[bellyup]

I cant imagine why you think this is funny.

 

Apparently the boarding party were surprised .

 

Its true that the Hamas cowards prefer to kidnap young conscripts barely out of the sixth form ( ie Gilad Shalit)

 

but what difference does it make the soldiers were attacked.

 

They had already intercepted 5 ships without incident.

 

Peace activists dont attack soldiers with iron bars and knives

 

Hamas has incidentally refused to accept the aid of the ships so the situation in Gaza cant be that desperate!

[bellyup]

They have several Jordan, Iraq Iran Syria Lebanon,Egypt Saudi Arabia Kuwait + the emirates

What, they should leave their OWN lands and move across the borders to other countries?

 

All of these countries are Arabia .

 

Many were under the Ottoman empire.

 

They are Arab lands .

 

Israel is but a tiny % of the lands that make up Arabia - the palestinians are no different to any other Arab.

 

They wandered all over but were drawn to Israel by the employment opportnities offered by the Zionist settlers.

[Freggyragh]

I'm not a narrow-minded Jew-hating Manx bigot, and I can't imagine why you would think so. See, if I was a narrow-minded Manx bigot I would advocate the creation of a 'Manx State' which would:

 

Be set up by an agency of nationalists (even if nearly all actually born outside the Isle of Man).

 

Make worship of 'the lil' people' a state religion.

 

Force 75% of non-Manx people to live in blockaded ghetto-like mini states, allowing the rest to live in isolated villages to provide cheap labour.

 

Grant automatic 'right of return' citizenship to the Manx diaspora, but require very stringent residency / religious conversion controls for any other potential immigrant.

 

Introduce conscription.

 

Develope nuclear weapons.

 

Provide a focus for the diaspora ( a diaspora that saw any attack or criticism of such a state of to be an attack on themselves by vicious 'Manx haters').

 

Ensure that non-Manx property owners could not develop valuable land.

 

Ban non-Manx from military service whilst provided schools and education only to families with military service record.

 

Ban any political or media organization from denying that the Isle of Man was a 'Manx State'.

 

Allow politicians to openly talk about the non-Manx as 'filth' and 'lice'.

 

Require everyone in the Isle of Man to carry an id card with their religion written on the front in large bold type.

 

That of course would be a terrible proposition, and a recipe for trouble with all our neighbours, but, I suppose Rog and Belly Up would call it democracy.

[jimbms]

Force 75% of non-Manx people to live in blockaded ghetto-like mini states, allowing the rest to live in isolated villages to provide cheap labour.

 

 

I take it you have never seen the outer new estates of Peel or visited the isolated village of Governors Hill.

[Chinahand]

From Bloody Sunday, to Soweto, to Tiananmen regimes have failed to deal with agressive civil disobedience.

 

It is one of the biggest challenges to policing in the world.

 

Most especially when that aggressive civil disobedience is a cloak for armed attacks upon the state, which can at times justify a fully military response.

 

I feel Israel has got itself in a bind - it is quite simply too aggressive in its actions - it uses tanks and 1000 Ib bombs to take out individual targets with massive collateral damage to civillians.

 

Israel tries to blame the militants for those actions, and there is something in that, but in my view that is a strategy destined to failure - when a state uses disproportionate violence to try to stop militancy they will create support for that militancy.

 

The killed civillians will be blamed on the disproportionate attack and not the terrorist it was targeted at.

 

Moderates will be isolated - and militants strengthened leaving noone for Israel to negotiate with.

 

That is Israel's lot, and much of the blame rests with the violence it has unleashed.

 

Why is Hezbollah strong in Lebanon - because of Israel's brutality when it invaded to drive out the PLO. Why is Hamas rampant - because Gaza has been brutalized by tank and bomb.

 

Israel as Sparta will just leave the region inflames - and the militants will be able to use the "useful idiots" of the peace movement to help their cause - why? because Israel will again and again use machine guns on these "useful idiots".

 

Hamas, Hezbollah et al must be toasting Israel for its violence.

 

It isolates Israel.

 

There is much to sympathize in Israel's plight - she is under attack by an enemy who does not care what retaliation it brings, or the civilians it kills, but the trouble is Israel is not so different either in that attitude.

 

I am sure Rog and Yoshke Pandre will say that is unfair on Israel and partially I agree - compared to Hizbollah, Hamas and the PLO Israel DOES take some measures to reduce civillian deaths and to try and get civillians away from it when it attacks. But the point is those efforts still result in many thousands of civillian deaths - far more than Hizbollah or Hamas are able to inflict on Israel.

 

The Israeli's have bombed the middle ground out of the middle east, it had Turkish and Egyptian cooperation a decade ago - but as it has continued to extend its settlements and taken 5 or 6 civillian Palistinian eyes for every Israeli one taken that cooperation has gone.

 

Israel feels isolated and under attack, it is, but the disproportionate kicking out it does as a result of those attacks has lost it any sympathy.

[P.K.]

Iran has offered to escort aid ships to Egypt Gaza.

 

Here we go...