Israeli 'intervention'

[thesultanofsheight]

From Bloody Sunday, to Soweto, to Tiananmen regimes have failed to deal with agressive civil disobedience.

 

It is one of the biggest challenges to policing in the world.

 

Poland caved in easy enough. If you get enough angry people in the same street at the same time then its job done.

[bellyup]

Iran has offered to escort aid ships to Egypt Gaza.

 

Here we go...

 

Iran is all talk and no trousers.

They will have to be very careful before they provoke a war with Israel.

Iamadinnerjacket and the religious regime is not overly popular back home

( something to do with hanging gays and minors from cranes and treating women like third class citizens.)

 

To start a war with Israel just might get them ousted.

[bellyup]

From Bloody Sunday, to Soweto, to Tiananmen regimes have failed to deal with agressive civil disobedience.

 

 

Hamas, Hezbollah et al must be toasting Israel for its violence.

 

Not everyone is fooled - the activists have scored a home goal by publishing the pictures of the wounded Isreal soldier Taken by one of them in Turkish daily papers

 

There is much to sympathize in Israel's plight - she is under attack by an enemy who does not care what retaliation it brings, or the civilians it kills, but the trouble is Israel is not so different either in that attitude.

 

I disagree.

Israel is a liberal democracy with a free press and an independent judiciary. What it lacks is a decent PR machine!

The Hamas lot have played it to a tee.

As fanatics are ten a penny its easy to get some to offer themselves as martyrs to the cause.

(apparently 20 of the Peace activists on the Turkish boats had made prerecorded suicide videos)

 

 

 

 

 

compared to Hizbollah, Hamas and the PLO Israel DOES take some measures to reduce civillian deaths and to try and get civillians away from it when it attacks. But the point is those efforts still result in many thousands of civillian deaths - far more than Hizbollah or Hamas are able to inflict on Israel.

 

The problem is that Israel does have morals and democratic principles

.Other countries ie Russia have no trouble is stamping on their citizens, activists etc and the world makes not a murmour.

 

 

Israel feels isolated and under attack, it is, but the disproportionate kicking out it does as a result of those attacks has lost it any sympathy.

 

 

This word dispropertiate is attached to everything that applies to Israel.

When someone tries to hurt you and your family - tries to murder them in fact how proportionate will be you response?

[Yoshke Pandre]

Yoshke Pandre I must congratulate you on how you managed to answer each section I wrote without actually answering the full statement and in some cases where I did condemn how both sides treated prisoners you turned it around to think I was condemning the Jewish side only. It is very bigoted of you to think that attacking any part of Israeli policy is attacking all Jews, but in considering this then can I take it that if you attack any part of a non Jewish organisation you are by your own definition attacking all non Jews. The Israeli government as an organisation is a racist, fascist and genocidal organisation, if you wish to class yourself as being with them, then so be it.

 

To describe our government as being racist fascist or genocidal shows better than I ever could just how stupid you are or how ill informed you are, or maybe choose to be. In any case when it comes to bad government few places have worse than the stupid corrupt thing that YOU have.

 

Just for interest Yoshke (or Yaski) Pandre is defined as a rude and offensive way of describing Jesus

 

For your information Mr knows so much, “”Yoshke means little Joe. My father’s name was Joseph and as a child I was contsntly on his heels. I earned the name “” Little Joe because of this. The “”Pandre means Panther, a “”nick name I was given during my time in the IDF.

 

That it also is a term of contempt for Jesus is something of an amusement after I mentioned at home having been given the title “”Panther. The effect of this together with being “”Little Joseph created no end of hilarity especially in view of our opinion about so called Christians based on our experience of dealing with so many of the sanctimonious hypocritical creeps who wore their crucifix as if it were a bit of garlic in Draculas castle while they were in my country. Not all Christians that we had dealings with, but enough.

 

 

and, by extension, all Catholics (Catholic being the collective name used to describe all branches of the Christian religion as opposed to Roman Catholic).

 

 

Which is why I deliberately made mention to Roman Catholics. The word “”catholic is one that is used to describe a group so don’t try to be smart, you don’t have the basic requirements.

 

Bit of a racist and bigot are you not by attacking a religion by using such an offensive nick?

 

Attacking a religion? Don’t be a fool. It’s a name that I use on both of the other forums that I am a member of. Believe me, if I wanted to attack Christianity I wouldn’t be so obtuse and if by “”bigot you mean someone with views that are rock solid and based on experience and knowledge then yes by your definition I must be.

 

On the other hand if like you and some others who have commented on this item I was expressing such strong and wrong and offensive opinions based on information that suited my wants and ignored the full picture then by any definition I would be. Bigotry? Don’t make me laugh. You don’t even know the meaninmg of the word. A more narrow minded bigoted petty bunch of smug self satisfied self centred ignorant fools it would be hard to meat.

[Yoshke Pandre]

dammed if we do and were dammed if we don’t

 

Are you sure you aren't the same writer who does Rog but wearing heels? Since coincidentally she normally can't spelled damn either.

 

Eg.

 

That didn’t work any more than the damm fool “social Integrated Estates” on the Mainland which mix decent people with scum families works.

 

in the Far East, Africa, and much of the third world generally people from owner to inspector simply don't give a damm.

 

Nessa --- a damm fine contribution.

 

etc

 

I’m married to Roger. I have been for over thirty years. HE decided after the unspeakably disgusting thing written to him by stupid illeducated fool too stupid to even realise how stupid he is to drop out of the discussion board as much as anything because he is now so weak that to continue arguing against libel about OUR country with a mixture of stupid and nasty people was just not worth the effort. Roger may not feel especially bad about what was written to him wishing him dead but when I saw it I was disgusted. All he had to say was “”what can you expect from a pig but a rude noise? For my part I’ll not reply to this “”jimbms thing in kind, in fact I’ll wish for him to live one hundred years! Ninety nine in hospital

 

I was asked to confirm that “”belyup was not “”Rog. He isn’t. Nor am I.

 

Don’t worry though, I’ve got no plans to stay. I also have better things to do with my time that argue with drec who ignore facts and promote lies and distortions, especially those sitting in bigoted ignorance on an island in the Irish sea that resembles nothing more than a turd in a lavatory bowl, an analogy that judging by the disgusting state you’ve made of your beaches by the horrible way you just dump your sewage is rather apt.

 

My6 husband has told me not to waste any more time just casting pearls. He's right. Ive got better things to do than waste time and apart from that when someone argues with a fool the world sees two fools arguing.

[Freggyragh]

Palestine vs Israel = Two fools arguing (+ murdering) ?

[bellyup]

There are two very simple ways that Hamas could stop the blockade.

 

 

1) Stop firing rockets and missiles on innocent Israeli citizens

2) Release Gilad Shalit - kidnapped from te land of Israel and held against all the rules of the Genevra Convention ever since.

 

 

However Hamas will not do these two simple acts as Hamas does not want peace and is prepared to sacrifice the lives of its people to this end.

 

Is there ANY evidence whatsever that HAMAS has EVER made an effort towards peace?

 

[Yoshke Pandre]

While there are people who brainwash their kids with this sort of stuff there will never be peace.

 

 

You can tell a great deal from the national anthem about a nation. Compare Hatikva and its words http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjfFpFW9OdA with the “”Palestinian National anthem

 

The first, a gentle hopeful thing, the second a rawcous militaristic horror speaking of war, death, and killing. Always with the killing they are.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

You're just wasting our time Bellyup. I've already explained why peace alone is not something that the Palestinians want. They understandably have no interest in just making peace with a nation that denies them the ability to create a viable Palestinian nation. You seem to keep ignoring that.

No proof is needed of Hamas looking for peace. Everyone accepts that they do not want it. We can all also accept that they are one of the worst political groups in Palestine. The Palestinians do not do themselves favours by supporting them, but it is understandable why they do.

[Freggyragh]

Belly Up, the question you should be asking yourself is 'Why do Gazans support Hamas?' And is there any evidence that Netanyahou or his Polish Dad have ever made any real effort towards peace?

 

It is a tragedy every time an IDF member or Israeli civilian is killed, but, unfortunately, Israel does not seem to want to move towards any sort of just settlement with the Palestinians, and so it is unavoidable.

 

Oh, and I see Interior Minister Eli Yishai is proposing a bill to revoke citizenship and expulsion from the legislature for Arab MKs who took part in the flotilla, or may be thinking about political critique of the Sate of Israel in the future. Liberal Democracy? You don't understand the concept.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Just for interest Yoshke (or Yaski) Pandre is defined as a rude and offensive way of describing Jesus

Who gives a f*ck?

[bellyup]

You're just wasting our time Bellyup. I've already explained why peace alone is not something that the Palestinians want. They understandably have no interest in just making peace with a nation that denies them the ability to create a viable Palestinian nation. You seem to keep ignoring that.

 

 

But you are right in one way.

They have no interest in making peace.

 

With the BILLIONS that they have received in aid they could have built a state like Singapore using the intelligence and industry of its people as resources.

 

However to vote in a terrorist government would give the lie to this premise and would account for the fact that they are the state they are and have been for decades.

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing every time and hoping for a different result.

 

 

No proof is needed of Hamas looking for peace. Everyone accepts that they do not want it. We can all also accept that they are one of the worst political groups in Palestine. The Palestinians do not do themselves favours by supporting them, but it is understandable why they do.

 

Well done LDV you are beginning to see the light.

FYI many Palestinians bitterly regret Hamas being elected they realise they have been duped.

A private Palestinian joke doing the rounds in Gaza ( not within hearing of Hamas of course)

 

Q Whats the quickest way out of this poverty and suffering?

A Ask the Isrealis to occupy us again

 

Israel provided jobs for thousands palestinians when Hamas was elected all that ceased.

 

No one will employ someone whose has elected a government that has vowed to destroy you and your country.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

[quote name='bellyup' date='07 June 2010 - 01:11 PM' timestamp='1275912666'

They have no interest in making peace. BUT why would they? Can the Israeli's allow the creation of a viable Palestinian state?

 

With the BILLIONS that they have received in aid they could have built a state like Singapore using the intelligence and industry of its people as resources.

Singapore??? They DON'T want a tiny portion of land to become a sovereign nation, they want all the Palestinian territories to form one unit.

 

However to vote in a terrorist government would give the lie to this premise and would account for the fact that they are the state they are and have been for decades.

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing every time and hoping for a different result.

Do explain what the Palestinian problem has always been and continues to be today?

 

Well done LDV you are beginning to see the light.

FYI many Palestinians bitterly regret Hamas being elected they realise they have been duped.

A private Palestinian joke doing the rounds in Gaza ( not within hearing of Hamas of course)

Not beginning to see anything. I haven't changed my position. I don't know, maybe you see things in some 'black and white' scope of there being no position other than an outright support of Hamas or the Israeli state.

Hamas are awful and are a terrorist organisation. But that doesn't mean that there are not understandable reasons why they came to power and why they have popular support. But you just argue this 'poor' Israel story and don't recognise it is why terrorists are now in power in Gaza.

[bellyup]

Belly Up, the question you should be asking yourself is 'Why do Gazans support Hamas?' And is there any evidence that Netanyahou or his Polish Dad have ever made any real effort towards peace?

 

 

There have been endless attempts by Israel to make peace using emissaries from Jordan whose good king Abdullah has done all he can to unite the parties ( even though the PLO tried to assassinate his father and hence were expelled from Jordan)

Egypt has also tried .Emissaries from all over have tried to act as intermediaries.

America has done what it can Clinton gave the Palestinians the incredible offer by BARAK of 93% of EVERYTHING it ever wanted INCLUDING some control over Jerusalem.

The Door was open for peace- instead the Palestinians chose intifada

 

It is a tragedy every time an IDF member or Israeli civilian is killed, but, unfortunately, Israel does not seem to want to move towards any sort of just settlement with the Palestinians, and so it is unavoidable.

 

How can you make any settlement with a country whose government has VOWED in its written charter to DESTROY YOUR COUNTRY AND PEOPLE?

How can you settle with a country that kidnaps your soldiers and fires rockets at innocent civilians?

Every country in the world has the right to defend its citizens

 

 

 

Oh, and I see Interior Minister Eli Yishai is proposing a bill to revoke citizenship and expulsion from the legislature for Arab MKs who took part in the flotilla, or may be thinking about political critique of the Sate of Israel in the future. Liberal Democracy? You don't understand the concept.

 

The Arabs in Israel have the right of free speech the same as any other citizen.

But when a citizen actively works to harm his own country this is treason.

We hung Lord Haw Haw remember?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Just read your 93% of everything comment again. I'm out of this. Like banging your head on a brick wall.