Killings In Cumbria

[Chinahand]

@Kryton, I think the term "the legacy of slavery" encompasses all the political spectrums in attempting to answer that question.

[Tempus Fugit]

Can anyone please explain to me what purpose, other than killing something, owning a gun would have? Even the innocent purposes hide a, potentially, more deadly end result.

 

whilst not in any way trying to defend or explain the terriblle happenings in Cumbria, there are a lot of people who have (or had) firearms for purposes other than killing things.

 

On the IoM there used to be (I think) 13 rifle clubs and 4 pistol clubs, maybe the original purpose for the establishment of some of these clubs was for military training between the wars, but as a target shooting sport it was very well supported and a very active part of Island life.

I was a member of one club for many years and never had any desire to kill anything. The general opinion from non-shooters is that it is some sort of an agressive sport where you release your anger on something, but that is very far from the truth, to get the best scores you have to really calm down, relax and slow down your breathing and heartbeat, the best scores are always obtained when your mind is not thinking of anything other than the image in front of you, you are not aware of anything else happening around you and when you are so relaxed you could almost fall asleep.

When the UK banned handguns it wrecked an olympic sport and closed loads of UK sports clubs, and although there is no local ban there was no longer a postal league competition to compete in (apart from Ireland !) and led to the ridiculous situation that any world class UK pistol shooters had to travel to places like Switzerland to train for the olympics.

 

As for the purpose of target shooting, there's as much purpose as hitting a little white ball around a field with a stick but doesn't pay as well

[spanna]

Like i said earlier in the thread. Gun clubs can hold the guns in a secure unit at their site. No need for sport shooters to have personal access to a gun.

[Tempus Fugit]

Like i said earlier in the thread. Gun clubs can hold the guns in a secure unit at their site. No need for sport shooters to have personal access to a gun.

 

makes it a bit awkward if you have to go to (e.g.) Laxey to collect your weapon (if you have keys to get in) to go to Port St. Mary to a match, then back to Laxey afterwards (if you have keys to get in) and then back home to wherever.

(also an unattended premises may be less secure than an occupied premises)

[Max Power]

In the Michael Ryan, Hungerford case, an armed police officer had Ryan in his sights but did not shoot him. He claimed that he didn't because Ryan had him 'out gunned', meaning he was better armed. Now police marksmen train and practice shooting all the time, this officer must have been a better shot, but he couldn't bring himself to shoot at Ryan. I think that is proof that gun ownership and marksmanship do not make you a potential killer!

[gazza]

Like i said earlier in the thread. Gun clubs can hold the guns in a secure unit at their site. No need for sport shooters to have personal access to a gun.

 

And the other ppl that need guns for there live shoots,

ones that need them to protect there stock etc etc

[Mr. Sausages]

I think that is proof that gun ownership and marksmanship do not make you a potential killer!

 

But it does nothing to counter the argument that gun ownership makes it easier for a potential killer to do an awful lot of killing in a very short space of time.

[Alias]

You could theoretically kill loads of people with a spoon, but not five people in 10 seconds from 50 yards away, and at no risk to your own safety.

 

Try it in a car, and you'll end up crashing very quickly. Try it with a knife in the high street and you'll quickly come across two handy blokes who are more than your match. Try it with a shot gun and you leave a trail of dead people for a couple of hours until the armed response unit have caught up with you.

But this case was, from accounts, premeditated. If guns were banned, he could easily have made explosives (and potentially have been harder to find, at least people have to wield guns personally) and caused just as much loss of life, or even more.

 

I doubt the man went on a killing spree because he liked shooting weapons, so can such an event really be stopped?

[Mr. Sausages]

I'd argue that he couldn't "easily" have made explosives - he didn't have a licence to make explosives, and hadn't spent years practising blowing things up. Although obviously terrorists have managed to do just that. And I don't really see how you can see a positive to him being "easier to find" - three policeman helplessly watched him shooting people and couldn't intervene - finding him didn't help stop it.

 

Like you say, it was pre-meditated - he wanted to shoot people in the face, and watch them die. To the best of my knowledge the majority of these incidents are caused by legally owned weapons. I'd speculate that the sort of person who does this has had an anger (and probably a mental illness) building up inside them for months, and that every time they go shooting they have in their heads "I could actually do this, I already have the means" until that thought becomes overpowering. It would never occur to me, but I've never held a gun, and there's no denying that guns are the weapon of choice for this kind of thing.

[gazza]

I'd argue that he couldn't "easily" have made explosives - he didn't have a licence to make explosives, and hadn't spent years practising blowing things up. Although obviously terrorists have managed to do just that. And I don't really see how you can see a positive to him being "easier to find" - three policeman helplessly watched him shooting people and couldn't intervene - finding him didn't help stop it.

 

Like you say, it was pre-meditated - he wanted to shoot people in the face, and watch them die. To the best of my knowledge the majority of these incidents are caused by legally owned weapons. I'd speculate that the sort of person who does this has had an anger (and probably a mental illness) building up inside them for months, and that every time they go shooting they have in their heads "I could actually do this, I already have the means" until that thought becomes overpowering. It would never occur to me, but I've never held a gun, and there's no denying that guns are the weapon of choice for this kind of thing.

 

best of your knowledge, could mean a hell of a lot.

 

so what u trying to say is anyone who has a gun has the feeling of wanting to go shoot ppl every time they use it

[Ruger]

I think that is proof that gun ownership and marksmanship do not make you a potential killer!

 

But it does nothing to counter the argument that gun ownership makes it easier for a potential killer to do an awful lot of killing in a very short space of time.

 

I'd argue that he couldn't "easily" have made explosives - he didn't have a licence to make explosives, and hadn't spent years practising blowing things up. Although obviously terrorists have managed to do just that. And I don't really see how you can see a positive to him being "easier to find" - three policeman helplessly watched him shooting people and couldn't intervene - finding him didn't help stop it.

 

Like you say, it was pre-meditated - he wanted to shoot people in the face, and watch them die. To the best of my knowledge the majority of these incidents are caused by legally owned weapons. I'd speculate that the sort of person who does this has had an anger (and probably a mental illness) building up inside them for months, and that every time they go shooting they have in their heads "I could actually do this, I already have the means" until that thought becomes overpowering. It would never occur to me, but I've never held a gun, and there's no denying that guns are the weapon of choice for this kind of thing.

 

Not if there were someone to stop him! Concealed carry / more armed police, there are ways, but it shouldn’t even have gotten that far, he clearly was not fit to be in posetion of any firearms so should have been disarmed well before this happened.

 

The previous two shootings could have been avoided for the same reason that the licence holders were not mentally fit to be in possession of firearms, the police should have acted before it was to late.

 

I legally hold a few guns (Ooo shock horror ), aside from shooting as a great sport! Many cereal growers/farmers would probably have gone bust if not for a few of us out controlling agricultural pests, its good, it keeps people in business and even food prices a little lower!.

 

Anyway, I wouldn’t been granted my rwc or fac if my GP had expressed any concern to the police about my mental fitness when questioned, or likely if I had ever been convicted of any offence. The same goes for all applicants, although come renewal I'm not so sure they do check with your GP but they should, anyone can change for the worst so the police & GP's should hold good comunications about firearms holders.

[Mr. Sausages]

best of your knowledge, could mean a hell of a lot.

 

so what u trying to say is anyone who has a gun has the feeling of wanting to go shoot ppl every time they use it

 

Read my post again. Preferably after you've attended literacy classes.

[Alias]

That's the problem though, the 'majority of these incidents' is about 3 (mass shootings), which is why it's important to act with a proportionate response. "Easier to find" was a positive - would he really have killed himself if he had not been positively identified?

 

I'm not arguing that removing weapons altogether may have stopped this specific incident, but it wouldn't have stopped shootings in general (most of the gang shootings are unregistered weapons), and if someone is determined to go out in such a fashion there are plenty of available alternatives that can cause similar amounts of damage. As to the ease of explosives, he could easily just buy a few gas tanks and drive into a populated building, it's not all about manufactured chemicals.

[jimbms]

As to the ease of explosives, he could easily just buy a few gas tanks and drive into a populated building, it's not all about manufactured chemicals.

I would say with modern technology, teaching and the ingredients now in a lot of domestic products, the making of a Coop mix has never been simpler.

[thebees]

I noticed that little paradox myself james, i just thought she had probably been at the whacky backie again.

Yep, and have you noticed she never offers it round for a toke

 

 

Keep up slow coaches, I stopped smoking ages ago. I didn't know he had died. I tend to try to ignore these types of story, not really news I'd be interested in.