Saville Report Released

[Terse]

 

You really are beginning to sound like Rog when someone criticises Israel.

Face it, the British government and the army fucked up. They should never have sent the paras to do a policing job.

[jimbms]

At that point in time the para's were little more than rent a thug they was made up from either sections of society that was unemployable or it was a way of avoiding prison usualy for violence offences and every unit in the British army classed them as that. But in saying that the paras did turn round the lives of many of these lads, the problem is when a group of violent young lads are brainwashed by NCO's that they are the 'hardest' regiment around it does not take much to spark them off and once they did kick off it was standard practice for the rest of us to bugger off out of the way, one good example, a group of them one day came out the Flax Mill barracks and started lobbing bricks at their own mates, totally baffled the kids throwing bricks who just walked away bemused. For some reason that Sunday, one of them fired at a potential gunman who in all probability did fire a shot, what then happened was only what would be expected of such a unit, some other idiot also fired back whilst shouting something and the rest took this as the order to shoot, being the gung ho unit the para was they fired at anything they thought may have been holding a weapon, the rest is history. If anyone should be prosecuted then it should be the idiots that put such a volotile unit in what could only be described as the main potential flashpoint area of this march. As for McGuiness, yes he may have served time for minor offences but he was never prosecuted for the torture and murder of British soldiers 6 of whom can be attributed to being done by his own hands according to witnesses, it was deemed not in the interest of the then peace talks to proceed with the prosecution, or how about Adam's, the archietect of the cell terrorsit system they used, also responsible for issuing the orders to bomb targets in mainland Britain, he was not prosecuted, the point is that part of our history is over those two was never brought to justice for the reasons of peace, so why should a bunch of now 50 year old ex paras not have the same right to forget the past, many of them I guess have regretted the action that day ever since, why not just draw a line under this bad part and get on with life.

[Rog]

Let’s just keep in mind that 763 British Troops were killed in Northern Ireland let alone how many injured or how many British civilians killed and injured by SCUM.

 

Not killed by mistake as a result of believing that they were being opened fire on (if indeed it WAS a mistake) but by deliberate cold blooded cowardice by murdering terrorists, mostly from Eire or those who demand that Britain hands over a part of Britain to a foreign country.

 

I can remember graffiti along the lines of “Para’s 13, IRA nil” that was to be seen in some places at the time. That graffiti was wrong then and,it certainly is wrong today. Today at best it should read “Para’s 13, Terrorists 736”.

[When Skies Are Grey]

Let’s just keep in mind that 763 British Troops were killed in Northern Ireland let alone how many injured or how many British civilians killed and injured by SCUM.

 

Indeed, time does seem to have somewhat romanticised the IRA....let's not forget the term "pub bombing"....

[alph3]

That's a contentious issue Rog, and the reason the IRA and others were formed originally. The nationalist civilian army (IRA, or terrorists, call them what you like) was formed as the British were seen as an occupying force.

And another thing that seems to be overlooked by those shouting for the head of McGuinness and Adams and IRA members in general (I don't particularly care for either men, but it is undeniable that they had been a force behind the peace process) is that the loyalist groups did there own fair share of killing. Ian Paisley wouldn't get a look in nowadays as every word that passed his lips was a thinly veiled message of hatred!

 

Regardless of that, at least there is no some closure for those affected. I hope that the soldiers are not persued. I sincerly hope, as someone else already stated, that a line can now be drawn through the whole sorry business.

[Rog]

Let’s put aside the IRA and even the cooperation that the Irish had with the Germans during both world wars and instead concentrate on the modern outbreak of trouble when a minority of the people living in a part of BRITAIN started to push for part of BRITAIN to be handed over to a foreign nation.

 

Because that’s what Eire is. There’s a tendency to forget that on the ISLAND of Ireland there are two nations. One the Republic of Eire, the other a part of BRITAIN.

 

So the argument that Adams and McGuinness are in any way associated with the IRA other than demanding what they are not entitled to falls at the first hurdle.

 

Instead they are key figures in the creation of the Provisional IRA, a separate terrorist organisation funded largely by citizens from within the US and implicitly supported by the horrible Kennedy scum family.

 

I would agree that the Loyalists did their share – there were times they had to – but to compare the ambitions of the Loyalist groups with those of the Provo’s and their ilk simply isn’t justified. Nowhere can I recall ever seeing demands form any Loyalist groups for the return of the 26 counties, instead all that was being demanded was that what was left as Ulster should remain part of the Union and not become part of a nation with principles and practices that the loyalists deplored

 

As for Dr. Lord Paisley, the very thought that such a giant of a man, a very decent man, an honest man, and someone who wanted peace for the people of the country that he was a citizen of should not today “get a look in” says far more in terms of criticism about “these days” than about a great political leader.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

 

 

I would agree that the Loyalists did their share – there were times they had to – but to compare the ambitions of the Loyalist groups with those of the Provo’s and their ilk simply isn’t justified. Nowhere can I recall ever seeing demands form any Loyalist groups for the return of the 26 counties, instead all that was being demanded was that what was left as Ulster should remain part of the Union and not become part of a nation with principles and practices that the loyalists deplored

I don't understand the point you are making. They were both wrong to demand such things. You can even ponder the whole issue of the Boundary Commission and the lack of involvement by the British government to deal with the matter, in terms that partly led to the situation where nationalists were demanding that Ulster join Eire.

 

Though as nasty as the idea is, in my opinion, when you way up the kinds of terrorism committed by loyalist and nationalists in terms of how atrocious they were, there is much between them.

 

The loyalist terrorism wasn't done for a political purpose but only as brutal reprisals because of the anger caused when the nationalists killed the police, military personnel, or civilians in the course of their operations.

 

As for Dr. Lord Paisley, the very thought that such a giant of a man, a very decent man, an honest man, and someone who wanted peace for the people of the country that he was a citizen of should not today “get a look in” says far more in terms of criticism about “these days” than about a great political leader.

Ian Paisley???

[Rog]

 

 

As for Dr. Lord Paisley, the very thought that such a giant of a man, a very decent man, an honest man, and someone who wanted peace for the people of the country that he was a citizen of should not today “get a look in” says far more in terms of criticism about “these days” than about a great political leader.

Ian Paisley???

 

Yes. Someone that I know personally.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I think you're fibbing.

[P.K.]

 

You really are beginning to sound like Rog when someone criticises Israel.

Face it, the British government and the army fucked up. They should never have sent the paras to do a policing job.

 

By then it wasn't a "policing" job which is why we were there in the first place! The RUC were failing to react and the whole lot was slipping into anarchy.

 

 

For some reason that Sunday, one of them fired at a potential gunman who in all probability did fire a shot, what then happened was only what would be expected of such a unit, some other idiot also fired back whilst shouting something and the rest took this as the order to shoot, being the gung ho unit the para was they fired at anything they thought may have been holding a weapon, the rest is history. If anyone should be prosecuted then it should be the idiots that put such a volotile unit in what could only be described as the main potential flashpoint area of this march.

 

Pretty much my understanding as well. The more "gung-ho" the unit the firmer the discipline has to be. Discipline breeds self-discipline which is the backbone of the army. It clearly went awol on the Sunday in question. But planks are just people after all which is easily forgotten. They then went on to lose 18 in one incident at Warrenpoint. Oh sorry, you're not supposed to mention terrorist atrocities are you...

[Rog]

I think you're fibbing.

 

Then you think wrongly.

 

I got to know Dr, Paisley while working in Ulster, something that I did on and off over a period of ten years in the nineties.

 

The man is very much NOT as he is generally perceived.

[Freggyragh]

Rog, we have established that you are a moron on many previous occasions, but there is no need to keep reminding us.

 

Northern Ireland is in Ireland (the clue is in the name). You have confused 'Britain' with 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'. Your elbow is the joint between your forearm and upper arm, your arse is the orifice your opinions come out of.

[pongo]

They then went on to lose 18 in one incident at Warrenpoint. Oh sorry, you're not supposed to mention terrorist atrocities ...

 

... 7 years later in 1979 by which time the war had escalated almost out of control - and surely partly as a result of events such as Bloody Sunday which would have caused people to become involved in armed conflict. Isn't that partly what Bloody Sunday is remembered as ... like a point of no return ?

 

Remember that early on much of the international community had been calling for direct talks and for UN involvement and it seemed to many people as if the British Army was being used to prop up the gerrymandered state.

 

By 1979 there had been countless ceasefires none of which had resulted in political progress or inclusion. A weak British government had allowed the unionists to collapse the institutions set up under the Sunningdale power sharing agreement. Progress ultimately came as a result of political initiatives thanks to the perseverance of people like John Hulme. And thanks probably to UK Foreign Office people in Dublin and their direct links with the republican leadership. According to the history books. Progress came as a result of building an inclusive political process which people could believe in.

 

The agreement reached was more or less what had been agreed back at Sunningdale more than 20 years previously.

[Rog]

Rog, we have established that you are a moron on many previous occasions, but there is no need to keep reminding us.

 

Northern Ireland is in Ireland (the clue is in the name). You have confused 'Britain' with 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'. Your elbow is the joint between your forearm and upper arm, your arse is the orifice your opinions come out of.

 

No, Northern Ireland is ON the ISLAND called Ireland. Also ON a different part of that ISLAND is Eire aka Southern Ireland.

 

What's more I deliberately chose the word Britain as being an accepted term that means the same as The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland just as the commonly used "UK" does.

 

Northern Ireland is a part of the UK. Just as the Isle of Wight is a part of the Uk except that whereas all of the ISLAND that is the Isle of Wight is part of the UK, only a part of the ISLAND of IRELAND is a part of the UK.

 

But it is still a part of the UK and that is precisely how the majority of the population of that part of the UK want it to be and want it to remain.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I think you're fibbing.

 

Then you think wrongly.

 

I got to know Dr, Paisley while working in Ulster, something that I did on and off over a period of ten years in the nineties.

 

The man is very much NOT as he is generally perceived.

I wouldn't like to make any claims for he is generally perceived, but the man is a homophobic wanker from what I have read. Enough for me to form an opinion. Let's not emphasise too much what a great man he is. Someone I would be glad to hear about - when he snuffs it.