Gurkha Beheads Taliban

[Evil Goblin]

Pongo - my comment was pointed at those who criticise the Armed Forces - they are simply obeying the orders of the Government and God help us if they ever decide to go their own way and act independently of the Civil Power. Criticising the Forces is tantamount to undermining them and their morale - exactly the sort of thing a Fifth Column does.

 

Whether we should be in Afghanistan, whether the war is being correctly pursued, etc. are political questions and have little to do with the Armed Forces. If people want to flay the Government, fine, they can go ahead, but not only leave the Forces out of the argument, support them (which is not the same as supporting the Government).

[macmannin]

I dont buy this "I am only following orders".If I told you to put your hand in the fire would you?

[Evil Goblin]

OK, macmannin -can you imagine (assuming that you have that capacity) how any fighting force can operate on any other basis. As I said before, God save us from numbskulls like you. Mind you, you probably wouldn't be around if people hadn't obeyed orders in the last war because the Nazis would have won and your inadequate genotype exterminated.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

The point being that the armed forces cannot pick and choose what they are tasked to do.

Irrespective of the correctness or otherwise of the policy that puts them there, they are only doing their duty.

 

As such, they deserve to be recognized and supported for the sacrifices they are making - them being there in the first place is an action the government is responsible for.

 

Theirs not to reason why - to quote Tennyson.

 

It's the government who sent them, it's the government who are responsible.

 

Perhaps it is a contradiction but that's the way it is.

Life is often not clear cut black and white.

You're talking about something different here or appear to be. But I think your perspective (commonly held) is one that serves to highlight the problem people have in their thinking on the Armed Forces and this stupid idea of 'support'. It's the foolish idea based on a wrongful assumption that one can separate WHAT these men/women do and yet still somehow support them. You can't. What are you supporting if not their mission, fight, or reason for being there? Are you sending them chocolates, fancy knitwear, motivational letters, or money?

It's an american catchphrase that appears to have caught on with Britain.

No doubt it has so readily been taken up because of the disapproval people have for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Yet due to blind patriotism, jingoism, and myths about the Armed Forces people either feel they have to continue saying something sounding positive.

 

It doesn't help when so many people think and act like sheep by believing something should be said and has meaning just because other people make mention of it. I think it very fair to say that considering the greater part of society's thinking on the military and armed forces that many people probably haven't given ANY thought to what they mean by support. They no doubt just feel it is right.

 

If you want to talk about the degree of responsibility those in the Forces have for being in the situation they might find themselves in then that's for another thread. But I don't treat these men/women as those who have magically appeared in the mindless and are mindless zombies. Choices are made to enter the Forces and choices continue to made as to whether they will stay or go. The issue for me is how much noxious propaganda needs to be removed from society so that young people aren't given the idea that they are doing something for the British people and that the role offers them a high esteem from others.

 

It is necessary to remember that on Planet LaLa they are completely unable to understand the inevitable greys of real life, but live in their own prosthetic environment where only black and white exist, no shades in between.

I admit, I do live in a world of black and white where words either have meaning or are gibberish. That is necessary for me.

 

The one thing not a contradiction is young men are dying for the UK in whatever circumstances because that is what the armed forces do, follow orders, and that to me means they are very worthy of my support. I do not agree with the armed forces being in Afghanistan I thought I made that clear but my support for them is unequivocal.

You had made it clear, but again you are totally contradicting yourself. Which begs the question of what it is you are supporting and how you are supporting. As for dying for the UK, I don't know what you are defining as the UK and I don't therefore see why you think that makes such people worthy of support.

 

Pongo - my comment was pointed at those who criticise the Armed Forces - they are simply obeying the orders of the Government and God help us if they ever decide to go their own way and act independently of the Civil Power.

What ARE you going on about?

 

Whether we should be in Afghanistan, whether the war is being correctly pursued, etc. are political questions and have little to do with the Armed Forces

Well that's not true. It depends on what it meant by the Armed Forces (whether we are talking about the institution as a whole or specific servicemen, for example) and exactly what is being discussed.

 

If people want to flay the Government, fine, they can go ahead, but not only leave the Forces out of the argument, support them (which is not the same as supporting the Government).

Then it doesn't mean anything.

[- Paul -]

It doesn't help when so many people think and act like sheep by believing something should be said and has meaning just because other people make mention of it. I think it very fair to say that considering the greater part of society's thinking on the military and armed forces that many people probably haven't given ANY thought to what they mean by support. They no doubt just feel it is right.

 

Will you get over yourself.

 

Stop thinking that people who hold different points of view to you on this are doing so as a result of an authority driven vox populi.

 

The majority are quite capable of looking at an issue and forming their own opinion/s

 

There's no 'brainwashing' or sheep like activity involved.

 

Yes it would be nice to all link hands all around the world and joyfully sing in one big permanent nauseating one world video promo but it aint gonna happen.

 

And while it's not, I and I suspect not a few others, are grateful for people who for whatever reason are prepared to serve in the armed forces and sometimes pay the ultimate price so we can talk bollocks on here and do other everyday things we don't even think about but have been hard fought and paid for.

 

As for Afghanistan - Blair and similar fuckwits should have been leading from the front.

Perhaps then they might think twice about playing arselicking sidekick to even bigger fuckwits.

[MilitantDogOwner]

Do they have NO idea how to behave as humans? None of this is necessary and they all need to just calm down a little bit.

 

If we all behaved "as humans" (what a strange and naive concept anyway). There would be no need for anyone, anywhere to have armed forces.

 

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about (i.e. decisions made by professional fighting men in a combat situation).

[MilitantDogOwner]

I dont buy this "I am only following orders".If I told you to put your hand in the fire would you?

 

To be an effective combat soldier sometimes you will be told to do something which put you in harms way. If you cannot switch off the human override to avoid harm you are more a hinderance than a help.

 

Then of course you have the soldier who doesnt need to be told to go into harms way. Like those two heroic lads who lost their lives trying to save a wounded comrade.

 

I have said this time and again on this thread and others. It is not something a civilian can understand, especially pontificating from the safety of your armchair.

[MilitantDogOwner]

 

Blah, blah, blah.

 

 

I wonder do you actually know anyone who was in/serving/planning on joining and what they make of the drivel you spout?

[Evil Goblin]

LDV - I'm not going to soak up space quoting your posting but I really do have to ask - are you really that stupid?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Will you get over yourself.

 

Stop thinking that people who hold different points of view to you on this are doing so as a result of an authority driven vox populi.

I very much think that the majority of people do hold their opinion and 'understanding' on the basis of what they read (in the British media), what they hear from government, and from other people's opinion that are based on these things. And the perspectives given by the media and government are forms of propaganda when it comes to such issues as this.

 

The majority are quite capable of looking at an issue and forming their own opinion/s

On what information? And how are their opinions formed?

Say for instance that everyone had only been given access to certain information on an issue or had never heard of any other perpspectives at looking at an issue? What if everything they read bleats on about such subjects with tones of patriotism or is ceaselessly damning about someone or something.

 

There's no 'brainwashing' or sheep like activity involved.

I disagree. On many issues in society people tend to conform to a dominant opinion, even when they have little understanding of such matters.

Whenever issues such as the Armed Forces are discussed for example it is often the case that the most you can get out of people in terms of debate are woolly references to "protecting Britain", "protecting freedoms", or the brave protecting those incapable of protecting themselves, etc. There doesn't appear to be much thinking behind these comments.

 

Though this is not to say that I believe that all people really haven't given much thought to things. It is rather that on specific subjects such as the "Support the Troops" that I become aware of a lack of thinking.

 

Yes it would be nice to all link hands all around the world and joyfully sing in one big permanent nauseating one world video promo but it aint gonna happen.

What's your point?

 

And while it's not, I and I suspect not a few others, are grateful for people who for whatever reason are prepared to serve in the armed forces and sometimes pay the ultimate price so we can talk bollocks on here and do other everyday things we don't even think about but have been hard fought and paid for.

You seem to be highlighting the problem here. You seem to think that the Armed Forces are maintaining freedoms.

 

Ultimate price? Let's call it death and do away with this historic language surrounding the military. It is only used because it carries with it a certain idea and emotiveness.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

LDV - I'm not going to soak up space quoting your posting but I really do have to ask - are you really that stupid?

What a load of bullshit - "soaking up space". You haven't got much to say, that's why you aren't going any further to explain yourself.

[manxy]

Wouldn't it be great if the fighting stopped?....

I know, it'll never happen and once one place is penciled in as 'sort of finished', then another crops up. It's just a horrific merry-go-round and the only winners are those who line their huge bottomless pockets with gold through the sales of war, whether it be clothing, weapons, transport or even medication.

 

Far too many needless injuries and deaths around the world for my liking and when you hear of kids as young as 9 being taught to kill, then where does it all stop? Are we just waiting for the supposedly crazed General who pushes the red button and nukes the Israelis or the Chinese... whoever, because they want to defend their land from invaders? Just where does it stop? Leaders of war have sent hundreds of thousands of people to their deaths in capturing a hill or a town from the safety of their bunkers and in years gone by, walls have been torn down and the places reclaimed again and again.

 

I don't understand war and probably never will as I just find it sad to see people dying day after day and as mentioned before, I can't see it stopping, regardless of the cost.

[Overdose]

I'd love the war to stop, purely so we wouldn't have to read LaLa's drivel in every other post.....

[La_Dolce_Vita]

At least I am having a positive effect. I am afraid you'll have to put up with 'drivel'.

[Nosferatu]

At the end of the day the Gurkha was in a war zone and involved in a fire fight I doubt very much that he was concerned that lopping off Mr Taliban's head was going to cause offence . It's war not a fucking picnic down at the beach not really the ideal place to make sudden decisions about whether what you are doing ain't quite cricket. All this shite about it being a gross insult for the body to be in bits is a fucking piss take , do the Taliban scrape up all the little bits of mince when one of their mates blows himself up in the old semtex waistcoat , I somehow doubt it . That said there is no need for our armed forces to be out there , abandon the place and let all the tribes go back to running the shitehole and bickering amongst themselves when they find out who has being paying who behind the others backs .