Blair's Book

[P.K.]

The fact that he converted to Catholicism shows that he's gullible enough to believe anything - he must have been a complete pushover for Dubya!

As for his 'autobiography' - he dropped the UK in the deepest shit imaginable and blamed Brown for not being able to get out of it.

In 1997 I had high hopes of the incoming government. Blair's determination to claim a place in history and let his ego rule his conscience meant that my hopes were misplaced. He is the epitome of sleaze.

 

I take it you've not read his book then...

 

People don't vote politicians in because they are mor capable or clever. If that was the case then you certainly wouldn't have Blair directing matters. They're just given information that the public is not with which to make decisions on.

 

Of course they don't. No-one likes a smart-arse anyway. In any event in the UK we vote a government out rather than vote one in.

[Lonan3]

 

I take it you've not read his book then...

 

No point reading fiction when you already know whodunit!

[P.K.]

Actually Blair candidly admits to getting lots of stuff wrong. Can anyone imagine the appalling Thatcher doing similarly?

 

Didn't think so...

[spook]

I like Thatcher. She saved Britain.

[Evil Goblin]

Ah - so now we know, Spook - baiting PK shows that you are a troll and all your anti-Jewish stuff was pure trolling, despite your denial.You must also have been around a while to know that PK has this irrational hatred of the Great Maggie.

[P.K.]

There's nothing irrational about my hatred of Thatcher at all. Like many who lived through it I thought the sacrifice of whole communities on the alter of political dogma quite disgusting. Believe it or not the government of the day have a duty of care to ALL of their citizens. Thatcher was the first to completely ignore that in favour of her own, personal philosophy which went - "They don't vote tory anyway so fuck 'em."

[Evil Goblin]

You can always be relied upon to rise to that particular bait, can't you, PK? I still consider that your "hatred" is as irrational as most "hatreds" are.

[P.K.]

You can always be relied upon to rise to that particular bait, can't you, PK? I still consider that your "hatred" is as irrational as most "hatreds" are.

 

I think you'll find that the definition of an "irrational" hatred is one where it's even incomprehensible to the person who has it!

 

Not so in my case I can assure you. The thing is that you don't just wake up one morning and think "I know, I'll hate the revolting Maggie and the greedy scum she spawned." In my experience you bring hatred like that down on yourself by the way you treat others. Hence "do unto others what you would have them do unto you" - Matthew 7 / 12.

[spook]

Ah - so now we know, Spook - baiting PK shows that you are a troll and all your anti-Jewish stuff was pure trolling, despite your denial.You must also have been around a while to know that PK has this irrational hatred of the Great Maggie.

 

I've no idea what PK's views are about MT. I simply expressed my own opinion.

[Terse]

There's nothing irrational about my hatred of Thatcher at all. Like many who lived through it I thought the sacrifice of whole communities on the alter of political dogma quite disgusting.

I agree there's nothing irrational about hating the Thatcher creature.

If she had been prepared to 'alter' instead of sacrificing on the 'altar' it might have been better.

[spook]

I can understand not liking MT for a lot of reasons ranging from her simpering attitude when it suited her to her loud mouthed bullying, even her foreign policy was far from good but I cant see that she could have done much else than she did in the uK.

 

The whole place was a mess. Industries were making stuff that cost more to make then it could be sold for, unions had ruined the economy, money was being borrowed to try to keep comunities together when the work wasn’t there, wages were out of control and the cosnstent r*t race between unions was making wage rises worthless, the whole thing had to be brought back to sense.

 

What was broken by her should have never been allowed to continue in the first place. Now the UK is in another even worse mess and now whats going to have to be done will be even worse. Its always the way with labour.

 

They get in, f*ck up the country but get people all pleased because they seem to be doing better when all the time the costs are being paid by the place going deeper in debt, along come the tories who start to put things healthy again, they get the blame for the sorting out f*ck ups that labour had done.

 

Next salute the tories get kicked out and the labour lot get in and the whole circus starts over. Labour get credit yet f*ck things up, tories get the blame but fix the problems.

 

I don’t think it would have mattered who was the PM, whoever it was would have had to do what MT did.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I can understand not liking MT for a lot of reasons ranging from her simpering attitude when it suited her to her loud mouthed bullying, even her foreign policy was far from good but I cant see that she could have done much else than she did in the uK.

Her foreign policy is the only thing I can pick out as being better than Blair's government.

 

The whole place was a mess. Industries were making stuff that cost more to make then it could be sold for, unions had ruined the economy, money was being borrowed to try to keep comunities together when the work wasn’t there, wages were out of control and the cosnstent r*t race between unions was making wage rises worthless, the whole thing had to be brought back to sense.

This is all depends on your politics opinion. Some industries were very inefficient but not most public owned ones. They could have certainly have been worked upon to improve them rather than sell them.

 

The unions didn't ruin the economy! The economy was already running poorly because of very capitalist business practices that Thatcher claimed to cherish. But the poor functioning of the economy hit affected wage levels and understandably the workers wanted their fair share for their work.

 

 

When you say 'brought back to sense', you only means the disempowerment of workers and power placed back with the business structure to do as it pleases, e.g. to more easily pay the wages they want to pay. And the result was a British economy almost wholly run by the private interests.

 

They get in, f*ck up the country but get people all pleased because they seem to be doing better when all the time the costs are being paid by the place going deeper in debt, along come the tories who start to put things healthy again, they get the blame for the sorting out f*ck ups that labour had done.

And what was the Thatcher government's economic prowess then? The recession of the mid-late 80s?

 

I don’t think it would have mattered who was the PM, whoever it was would have had to do what MT did.

Not necessarily. And it should be a question of what they could have done.

[credente]

No matter how much Tony Blair admits to 'doubts' or to 'errors,' the fact is that he will always insist that he was 'morally correct' in the decisions that he made.

Such people are, in many ways, just as dangerous as those who use their religion to 'prove' that their actions are justifiable. They genuinely believe that their actions are guided by some superior force or being, or by their own knowledge of what such a guiding influence requires of them. They will even, as happened in his case, seize upon some easily-disprovable 'evidence' to justify what they do.

His conscience will never trouble him - just as Mrs Thatcher's will never trouble her - because of an innate belief that such actions were directed by something that is far beyond human understanding.

[spook]

This is all depends on your politics opinion. Some industries were very inefficient but not most public owned ones. They could have certainly have been worked upon to improve them rather than sell them.

 

No they couldn’t. Money that went into the public owned industries mostly was syfened off into pay packets. The unions saw to that.

 

The unions didn't ruin the economy! The economy was already running poorly because of very capitalist business practices that Thatcher claimed to cherish. But the poor functioning of the economy hit affected wage levels and understandably the workers wanted their fair share for their work.

 

The economy was an ungodly mess because the capitalist economy wasnt able to operate because of socialist interferance. The workers wanted all they could grab encouraged by greedy unions. Anyway a workers wage should be related to the value of the job they do to the business, not a share of the business profits. You can be sure the buggers wouldn’t take on any employers losses, why should they take a share of his profits?

 

When you say 'brought back to sense', you only means the disempowerment of workers and power placed back with the business structure to do as it pleases, e.g. to more easily pay the wages they want to pay. And the result was a British economy almost wholly run by the private interests.

 

And what’s wrong with that?

 

A worker is a worker, not someone who risks his future to build something and takes all the risks. An economy run by private interests is the very best sort of economy to have. The most efficient, the most open for anyone to build a business in, and the kind that encourages people not to just sponge of the government one way or another.

 

And what was the Thatcher government's economic prowess then? The recession of the mid-late 80s?

 

The recession was the result of putting straight the distortion that the labour lot had caused by stupidly trying to keep what were called lame duck industries running and insolvant communities intact. We needed that recession just as we need a further period of recession and unemployment now to bring some sense back to the economy today. We cant carry on living on just taking on more and more loans as has been what’s happened.

 

Whoever had been PM if they had carried on as had been happening the country would have gone right down the pan, if they dealt with the mess the only way was to take a knife to the mess as MT did. After all, no matter how much you might want to or how hard you try you cant polish a turd.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Money that went into the public owned industries mostly was syfened off into pay packets.

And the people in the upper echelons were paid too much then as they are now. But where else would you expect the money to go than to workers and managers? They aren't profit making organisations.

 

The economy was an ungodly mess because the capitalist economy wasnt able to operate because of socialist interferance.

Able to operate? I don't know what you mean. It did operate. Do you mean the manner in which it did operate?

I would pre-empt you here but I want you to discuss this further.

 

Anyway a workers wage should be related to the value of the job they do to the business, not a share of the business profits

Absolutely disagree. But of course this could not happen in a capitalist ran business and economy.

 

You can be sure the buggers wouldn’t take on any employers losses, why should they take a share of his profits?

Because they make the business function. Without them the company doesn't exist. They produce the goods and services that ultimately lead to profits.

 

A worker is a worker, not someone who risks his future to build something and takes all the risks.

They risk their future every day by being wage workers who can be fired or made redundant at any time. Their job is their present and future. Though I don't really know what you are getting at here.

 

The most efficient, the most open for anyone to build a business in, and the kind that encourages people not to just sponge of the government one way or another.

Markets are not efficient. And what has sponging got to do with anything?

 

An economy run by private interests is the very best sort of economy to have.

Says who?

 

The recession was the result of putting straight the distortion that the labour lot had caused by stupidly trying to keep what were called lame duck industries running and insolvant communities intact.

Please, please explain this one more. You do know which recession I am talking about?

 

We needed that recession just as we need a further period of recession and unemployment now to bring some sense back to the economy today.

Are you a troll or an arsehole?

It might be that you just have appallingly bad conservative-capitalist outlook on past events.