Burning Holy Books

[The Bastard]

I often wonder how Christians who preach a literal interpretation of the Bible can reconcile their lifestyle with its teachings. It baffles me how people who say they're Christians can justify the expensive cars I see parked outside church every week when there are people dying for the want of basic necessities all over the world, children dying of hunger and for the want of clean water, basic shelter and elementary medical treatment.

 

Even giving up Sky TV or Broadband internet and making a simple call to a relief agency would seemingly provide enough money to provide clean water, anti-diarrhoeal medicine or a few tubes of tetracycline to stop kids going blind in the developing world.

 

Surely lecturing people over your expensive broadband link on how they're going to end up in a "lake of fire" whilst living in comparative luxury, with lots of disposable-income goodies instead of helping dying children with the money is the height of hypocrisy. Anyone who can call themselves a "Christian" in such circumstances either doesn't get irony, or is headed straight for the hottest part of the lake.

[Chinahand]

Why should it not be that The Lord created all beasts in such a form as was fitted to evolve over a period of time? That the creatures of today were intended to evolve from the proto-creatures at the time of creation? Keep in mind The Lord really IS The All Mighty and can do all things.

Spook - originally I thought you were saying that God did what it says in the bible - you said you belive the bible is true - even Genesis, but that time scales are different.

 

The evidence of science is that all the Lord needed to do was create a replicating chemical - and maybe "all" he needed to do to do that was create a universe with the laws of physics we observe and the universe would do it for him - no interventions necessary.

 

That is proundly different from Genesis.

 

The bible has the sun being created after the world - do you believe that is true? If so it is profoundly anti-science.

 

The bible doesn't talk about proto-creatures it talks about beasts of the earth after their kind and every winged fowl after his kind - two separate acts of creation at totally different times with the winged fowls coming first.

 

If you believe evolution was the way God brought about creation fine, but if you do you can't say Genesis is only mixing up the length of days or whatever. The order is profoundly different.

[ballaughbiker]

That's a bit unfair Bastard. They might be giving a lot to charity and then driving their expensive cars to church. I bet they're not though

[DjDan]

 

Surely lecturing people over your expensive broadband link on how they're going to end up in a "lake of fire" whilst living in comparative luxury, with lots of disposable-income goodies instead of helping dying children with the money is the height of hypocrisy. Anyone who can call themselves a "Christian" in such circumstances either doesn't get irony, or is headed straight for the hottest part of the lake.

 

So in your opinion, every Christian should sell their homes, clothing.. and live on the street - naked. Just so they can give their money to the poor?

 

I'm sure you don't mean that. Christians take a common sense approach. Give and do what they can, yet at the same time, provide what they can for themselves and their families. Live in comfort if possible. Enjoy luxuries if you have money to. There's nothing wrong in that.

 

Spook may be able to generate 'greater good' using his 'expensive broadband link' than he can in giving that money to the poor.

 

It's not Christianity that your argument directs at, it is everyone who cares about other people. Many non Christians give money to the poor etc... yet at the same time, live comfortably themselves. There is no double standard. No hypocrisy.

[DjDan]

Chinahand.. I'm not sure why you need the long-winded response to a simple statement that you understand very well. It hardly needs explaining any further or looking into details of words ie. "man".

 

As for your question about the doctrines of Christianity, it strikes me that there is little point in me answering when you have no interest in the doctrines nor the message of Christianity.

[Chinahand]

Fine Dan, but I'm not the only person who reads this forum.

 

Plus I AM profoundly interested in what you beleive and why - I fully admit I very much doubt I'll be converted, and it isn't with that objective that I ask you questions - but I am fascinated in understanding exactly what you believe and why especially when I see them as being contradictory or irrational or against scientific evidence.

 

Our belief systems are so profoundly different - but I'm aware that Christianity is an important part of our culture and quite simply I don't understand why, and so love to ask about people's supernatural beliefs.

 

Its not just Christianity, I'd do it with a Muslim and a Hindu too and someone who believed in ghosts. I also did the same thing with MM2 over Aliens!

 

I don't deny I do it to engage in debate, but at the same time I do sincerly wish you to state your beliefs as clearly as you can - you feel they are worthwhile, and make sense to you - so surely you can understand an outsider being curious, especially when that outsider has such a different point of view.

[DjDan]

Though as you say, you are not the only one who reads these forums. Countless times I have explained things sincerely, only for my comments to be picked apart, taken out of context and ridiculed. While that is the nature of forums (and I too am not here to attempt to convert you) it doesn't exactly encourage me to go into the details of my beliefs.

[Lao]

.

 

Plus I AM profoundly interested in what you beleive and why - I fully admit I very much doubt I'll be converted, and it isn't with that objective that I ask you questions - but I am fascinated in understanding exactly what you believe and why especially when I see them as being contradictory or irrational or against scientific evidence.

 

Ask him about Jesus' tour.

 

Mormons believe that Jesus did a tour of America preaching, it makes sense i suppose, Jesus probably agreed with the beatles that you're not really famous until you have broken into the American market.

 

The tour seems to have been a success as he is still very popular in America, although there is still no confirmation of the date of his comeback tour which is due to kick off in a temple in missouri, but when seems to be anyones guess.

 

I wonder if upon his return he will be sampling some new material or will he stick to his old favourites like "the meek shall inherit the earth" and "turn the other cheek".

 

[The Bastard]

So in your opinion, every Christian should sell their homes, clothing.. and live on the street - naked. Just so they can give their money to the poor?

 

I'm sure you don't mean that. Christians take a common sense approach. Give and do what they can, yet at the same time, provide what they can for themselves and their families. Live in comfort if possible. Enjoy luxuries if you have money to. There's nothing wrong in that.

 

It's not me that means it, it's the Bible. Read 'em and weep :

 

1 John 3:17-18

If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

 

Mark 10:21

Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

 

Luke 12:33

Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.

 

James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

Ezekiel 16:49

Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.

 

Matthew 25:41-45

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.'

 

Proverbs 28:27

He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses.

 

Proverbs 21:13

If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered.

 

Proverbs 31:8-9

Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.

 

Isaiah 1:17

Learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow.

 

Matthew 6:1-4

Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

 

The Bastard 1:1

You hypocritical Christian motherf*ckers are going to burn. Light up the sulphur, boys !

[mæŋksmən]

WHATTA bastard.

 

I think them fellas yapped too much.

[Monkey boy]

.

 

Plus I AM profoundly interested in what you beleive and why - I fully admit I very much doubt I'll be converted, and it isn't with that objective that I ask you questions - but I am fascinated in understanding exactly what you believe and why especially when I see them as being contradictory or irrational or against scientific evidence.

 

Ask him about Jesus' tour.

 

Mormons believe that Jesus did a tour of America preaching, it makes sense i suppose, Jesus probably agreed with the beatles that you're not really famous until you have broken into the American market.

 

The tour seems to have been a success as he is still very popular in America, although there is still no confirmation of the date of his comeback tour which is due to kick off in a temple in missouri, but when seems to be anyones guess.

 

I wonder if upon his return he will be sampling some new material or will he stick to his old favourites like "the meek shall inherit the earth" and "turn the other cheek".

 

Mormons - bloody hell now there's a whole can of worms. I've known the mildest mannered of clergymen go red in the face and start swearing like a govig at the mere mention of them.

[DjDan]

 

 

I love it when non Christians quote scriptural passages... when yet they know nothing about them.

[Monkey boy]

 

 

I love it when non Christians quote scriptural passages... when yet they know nothing about them.

I see you've heard of the mormons too then!

[DjDan]

 

 

I love it when non Christians quote scriptural passages... when yet they know nothing about them.

I see you've heard of the mormons too then!

 

I take it you have.. but I'm going to assume you don't know too much.

[Lao]

was i mistaken in thinking that DJ dan was a mormon? i thought that we had covered that in a different thread.

 

and DJdan...

 

I love it when non Christians quote scriptural passages... when yet they know nothing about them.

 

that sounds very smug, i take it you are going to follow up this condescention by explaining in detail how those bible passages are meant to imply something other than what any reader would take from them at face value; that jesus/god/the bible advocates selling your worldly possesions and donating all proceeds to the poor.

 

because I love it when christians fall victim to their own smug sense of superiority with regards to bible passages and their interpretations.