Burning Holy Books

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Spook, DjDan - can you be moral without God?

 

Yes.

You'd already answered this one in saying that you would make other choices than follow God's commandment, if he commanded you to do something you consider immoral.

[jimbms]

I have spent a lot of time studying the various belief systems that people espouse. The reason is that I believe there is something - some force or superior intelligence - that inhabits, and possibly controls, our universe. It is a long way beyond our present understanding of the physics and other sciences of the universe and may, perhaps, always be beyond the reach of our intelligence and comprehension. If someone wants to describe that as a god, or gods, then so be it.

What is your evidence for this?

I am convinced, however, that it is a natural phenomenon which is certainly not concerned by, or with, our daily lives. We are insignificant creatures on a tiny planet that is little more than a speck in the vastness of space.

And you're convinced of it too? Please let me know what evidence you have to support this.

I think what he has said is fairly self descriptive, there is some kind of naturally occurring force of an intelligence higher than ours that has a control over the universe. no real proof is needed bar the fact to state that to other life forms if they exist in the universe that us on earth are as equally unbelievable, yet we exit, things can happen just because they are. As for the second question you have to be pretty thick not to comprehend "We are insignificant creatures on a tiny planet that is little more than a speck in the vastness of space". The principals he describes is similar to the basis of the Buddhist faith, that life and existence has some form of order and meaning amongst the apparent chaos and we need not seek to find out its name but just to except that things happen in a sequential way. LDV you do not have to have an answer to everything, something's there is no answer to, they just are and this is what 'credente' is saying, there is a force but we cannot name or define it, therefore no evidence can be available or in the same manner it cannot be disputed, it just is.

 

 

[spook]

Spook, DjDan - can you be moral without God?

 

Yes.

You'd already answered this one in saying that you would make other choices than follow God's commandment, if he commanded you to do something you consider immoral.

 

That has nothing to do with living a moral life in the absence of God in your life.

 

What I wrote was that out of my love for my family I would risk entering a state of sin for them. I am not perfect, no one is, and love will cause people to make great sacrifice as The Lord did for all of us when he sent Jesus to atone for our sins.

[jimbms]

Spook, DjDan - can you be moral without God?

 

Yes.

But what if I don't want to be moral, I am quite happy being hedonistic, immoral and devient thank you.

[- Paul -]

I have spent a lot of time studying the various belief systems that people espouse.

The reason is that I believe there is something - some force or superior intelligence - that inhabits, and possibly controls, our universe. It is a long way beyond our present understanding of the physics and other sciences of the universe and may, perhaps, always be beyond the reach of our intelligence and comprehension. If someone wants to describe that as a god, or gods, then so be it.

What is your evidence for this?

 

I am convinced, however, that it is a natural phenomenon which is certainly not concerned by, or with, our daily lives. We are insignificant creatures on a tiny planet that is little more than a speck in the vastness of space.

And you're convinced of it too? Please let me know what evidence you have to support this.

 

Vorlons and Shadows..

[La_Dolce_Vita]

LDV you do not have to have an answer to everything, something's there is no answer to, they just are and this is what 'credente' is saying, there is a force but we cannot name or define it, therefore no evidence can be available or in the same manner it cannot be disputed, it just is.

Sorry Jimbms, but when you don't have the answers you just don't make things up. If you have no evidence for your claims about a 'force' (which requires defining first, actually) and intelligent being of superior power or mind then your belief is IRRATIONAL and it would be silly to believe it.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

What I wrote was that out of my love for my family I would risk entering a state of sin for them. I am not perfect, no one is, and love will cause people to make great sacrifice as The Lord did for all of us when he sent Jesus to atone for our sins.

But you would not question how your God could be moral by asking you to kill your family? You would still believe that you would be making the wrong choice by letting them live?

[jimbms]

LDV you do not have to have an answer to everything, something's there is no answer to, they just are and this is what 'credente' is saying, there is a force but we cannot name or define it, therefore no evidence can be available or in the same manner it cannot be disputed, it just is.

Sorry Jimbms, but when you don't have the answers you just don't make things up. If you have no evidence for your claims about a 'force' (which requires defining first, actually) and intelligent being of superior power or mind then your belief is IRRATIONAL and it would be silly to believe it.

There is no rational reason why a bunch of carbon atoms mixed with a few others should be able to evolve into a species that can debate why this happens but it has happened so you tell me what force that requires defining first actually cause this bunch of inert leifeless atoms to evolve into a living being. He did not make anything up he said there is a force like there is a life force here that may make order out of chaos. Your problem is if you are not capable of understanding something it's fingers in ears time ansdlalalala I can't hear you. Ok let us try it another way. You prove behond any doubt it does not exist, if you cannot therefore it must be.

[mæŋksmən]

Feel the force luke.

 

PS LDV your getting a little over-exited, so could you clear all this misunderstanding up alittle.

 

by answering a little question ??.

 

here it is.

 

Why were you born.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

There is no rational reason why a bunch of carbon atoms mixed with a few others should be able to evolve into a species that can debate why this happens but it has happened...

No rational reason? I think that might be the most ridiculous post you have made. We don't know yet and we might never know. But again, no reason to make up something.

 

so you tell me what force that requires defining first actually cause this bunch of inert leifeless atoms to evolve into a living being.

I don't know. And that's a GOOD answer.

 

He did not make anything up he said there is a force like there is a life force here that may make order out of chaos.

A life FORCE? It needs defining, is it something like in Star Wars?

And Credente was talking as if he believes such things, not that they MAY exist.

 

Your problem is if you are not capable of understanding something it's fingers in ears time ansdlalalala I can't hear you. Ok let us try it another way. You prove behond any doubt it does not exist, if you cannot therefore it must be.

Your problem is a lack of logic.

You can't prove that the universe is actually a superturd shat by a gargantuan cosmic Yorkshire terrier. Therefore, it must be!

[spook]

What I wrote was that out of my love for my family I would risk entering a state of sin for them. I am not perfect, no one is, and love will cause people to make great sacrifice as The Lord did for all of us when he sent Jesus to atone for our sins.

But you would not question how your God could be moral by asking you to kill your family? You would still believe that you would be making the wrong choice by letting them live?

 

I do nlt believe that The Lord would make that request of me. I do believe that satan might apear to be The Lord. In either case personally I would not for the reasons that I have described and at a possible price that I have described. Just as The Lord suffered for all mankind as a part of the trinity I love my family so much that I would risk my self on their behalf.

 

I would ask forgiveness of The Lord but I would have no option. None olf us are perfect. We can all only do our best. maybe in that I would be found wanting. I would hope not but when love is concerned you must put yourself third. Remember JOY, Jesus, Others and finally You.

[credente]

I have spent a lot of time studying the various belief systems that people espouse.

The reason is that I believe there is something - some force or superior intelligence - that inhabits, and possibly controls, our universe. It is a long way beyond our present understanding of the physics and other sciences of the universe and may, perhaps, always be beyond the reach of our intelligence and comprehension. If someone wants to describe that as a god, or gods, then so be it.

What is your evidence for this?

 

I am convinced, however, that it is a natural phenomenon which is certainly not concerned by, or with, our daily lives. We are insignificant creatures on a tiny planet that is little more than a speck in the vastness of space.

And you're convinced of it too? Please let me know what evidence you have to support this.

I'm sorry that you appear to be unable to grasp the concept of 'I believe that...'

In essence, I'm sure we're all well aware that there are many things about our lives and about our surroundings that, at the moment, defy rational explanation.

It may well be that science and our thirst for knowledge/answers will, at some point in the distant future, enable us not only to find the answers but to comprehend them.

In the meantime I have suggested, from my own experiences and studies, the possibility of there being an external force in the universe that is presently beyond our ability to identify, define or understand.

I have not suggested that this bears any relation to the somewhat superstitious beliefs about a god, or gods who intervene in our daily lives.

I believe that this 'force' has no interest or concerns about us or our rather insignificant little planet and that, therefore, any effect it does have on it is entirely unintentional and random.

I can no more prove that it exists than you can prove that it does not.

[jimbms]

He did not make anything up he said there is a force like there is a life force here that may make order out of chaos.

A life FORCE? It needs defining, is it something like in Star Wars?

And Credente was talking as if he believes such things, not that they MAY exist.

 

Your problem is if you are not capable of understanding something it's fingers in ears time ansdlalalala I can't hear you. Ok let us try it another way. You prove behond any doubt it does not exist, if you cannot therefore it must be.

Your problem is a lack of logic.

You can't prove that the universe is actually a superturd shat by a gargantuan cosmic Yorkshire terrier. Therefore, it must be!

As I said, show me your logic that it does not exist.

[mæŋksmən]

Faith is all you have no matter which side of the fence you fall.

 

Faith in yea and faith in nay.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

As I said, show me your logic that it does not exist.

The burden of proof is on those who make the claim/s. I haven't made any claims.

 

If you tell me that there is a magic force holding all life together then you need to provide evidence for that. Or that bigfoot is real. It is not my job to disprove it.