Burning Holy Books

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Just cause you say there is no creator does not alter the fact that everything in existance, just appeared poof in the blink off an eye.

Never said there was no creator! Never ever did! I am just saying that there is no God as mentioned by Christians. As for a creator, who has yet to be defined as anything other than just that, well there is no evidence or even indication for it. Just because something appear in the blink of an eye does not mean that it is natural/logical to assume that SOMETHING did it. There might have been a creator, but no reason to assume it.

 

Do you not find that alittle strange.

 

Everything we smell touch and see, poof and there it all was, including us.

Not really strange. It wasn't 'poof' then everything appeared. Lots of things, such as planets, humans, etc. developed over time.

If you mean why the universe appeared from the Big Bang then we really don't know. But I cannot fathom how that leads to think that something must have done it or is likely to have done it.

What leads you to that assumption? Why does something being strange make you think of creators?

 

See youve been told where it all came from, but have chose not to believe, even tho you have a nil hypothesis as an alternative.

Better than making things up.

[Chinahand]

mæŋksmən, I have no idea why there is a universe, but I can say that our understanding of it shows that we all came into being via a remorseless, impersonal grinding of time and chemistry.

 

There are thousands of myths which tell me I will be tortured or returned as some lesser animal or whatever if I do not follow a certain faiths beliefs.

 

It is impossible for me to say I have faith in all of them. So I have to live my life as honestly as I can - attempting to be moral and contributing to my community. That is all I can do. I ask for evidence, weigh up faith claims, and if I honestly can see no reason why I should profess a belief in a supernatural saviour then I do not.

 

Certainly some religions damn me for that. But I think honesty, and doubt, is for the best. And, as I've done, I highy question the morality of such a deity.

 

If any God exists with powers anything like some relgion's claim then I do not think I could hide my doubt from them with false claims.

[mæŋksmən]

mæŋksmən, I have no idea why there is a universe, but I can say that our understanding of it shows that we all came into being via a remorseless, impersonal grinding of time and chemistry.

 

Neither have i, and our understanding of it as you put it, is this, we think we know what constitutes 10% of the spacial element of our surroundings.

Truth is science knows that our universe and they guess all other universes are made up of 90% dark matter, the element of our universe that keeps on expanding it.

 

That opens a myriad of possibilities, that humans can only guess at, and one persons guess is no less valid than anyone elses.

 

There are thousands of myths which tell me I will be tortured or returned as some lesser animal or whatever if I do not follow a certain faiths beliefs.

 

You openly knowledge they are human myth, yet you waste your thinking time on them.

 

It is impossible for me to follow all of them. So I have to live my life as honestly as I can - attempting to be moral and contributing to my community. That is all I can do. I ask for evidence, weigh up faith claims, and if I honestly can see no reason why I should profess a belief in a supernatural saviour then I do not.

 

Me too, i just dont see the need to preach the opposite.

 

 

Certainly some religions damn me for that. But I think honesty, and doubt, is for the best. And, as I've done, I highy question the morality of such a deity.

 

They wouldnt damn you if you kept your opinion to yourself, as you already know its all just myth.

 

If any God exists with powers anything like some relgion's claim then I do not think I could hide my doubt from them with false claims.

 

Snake oil comes in all colours and flavours.

 

 

Still doesnt alter the fact that we exist, and every atom in existance came to be in the blink of an eye pooof.

 

And i may add, its not a insignificant amount of mass that just came into existance, pooof just like that.

 

 

And i think it a 51/49 chance of intelligent creation, how else can you explain our ability to ponder our existance, chemistry ?..

 

But i have zero interest in religion as an answer, or any other myth, i leave that to the intellectual types that take the trouble to read it.

 

eta.

i dont believe that it all happened randomly, i believe theres a point to it all, i have no idea what that point is, i just dont believe we exist and have the ability to ponder and explore our existence by random chance.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

...one persons guess is no less valid than anyone elses.

Rubbish. If I said that the universe was created by a robots in a sort of test tube and its some experiment then you would have to ask what makes me think that. If I have no good explanation for it based on some indication or evidence then it is not

 

You openly knowledge they are human myth, yet you waste your thinking time on them.

Why not try and understand the things that people believe are TRUE about our world and why we are here, especially when they have no evidence for it? It's a bizarre and very strange aspect of humanity and an evil one.

 

Me too, i just dont see the need to preach the opposite.

Why don't you? Religion needs to be challenged, because it has a very strong hold on people's minds, not just the vulernable (although the vulnerable are indoctrinated). It's an evil and dangerous trend of mind. Without being challenged people think it is normal and natural to be irrational and foolish.

 

And i think it a 50/50 chance of intelligent creation, how else can you explain our ability to ponder our existance, chemistry ?..

Why 50/50? And why are you so sceptical that our existence simply a result of processes, possibly random, that owe themselves to no intelligent designer?

 

I just think you are fixated on this idea of a creator being the best explanation because it is easy to think of some power waving a wand and making what you don't understand work. But you don't know anything about why things are as they are.

[mæŋksmən]

I was quite clear in what i said, you however can interpret it anyway you like.

 

your last sentence sums you up nicely.

 

quote = But you don't know anything about why things are as they are.

 

I thought i made that point quite clear, and until you do KNOW more than i or anyone else i suggest you cool your heels honey.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

You're not really getting it Manksman. Am I right in thinking that your view is that all claims are valid until we know the truth? Is that your opinion in a nutshell?

 

Do you know if there is actually a blue monster standing behind you everytime you write your posts but that it disappears everytime you turn around? Would that be a valid claim if I believed it?

 

Would it be a valid claim if I said that it was a enormous fishlike creature that created the universe in a Big Bang sort of way?

 

In much the same way, you think there's a high probability that a creator created the universe. But you have no evidence for this. It therefore remains possible, we just don't know, but there is nothing to think it likely. You just find it strange and impossible why things have turned out as they have. You seem to think it almost impossible that the universe could have turned out like it did. I don't think it strange or nigh impossible, however. No reason to think that. It just happened and it would be interesting to know why.

[mæŋksmən]

No its you that doesnt get it, i make no claims, i merely pass on my thoughts, no matter how clever we think we are, we know next to nothing, we know abit about our universe, we know enough to know, that we dont even know what 90% of the universe consists of.

 

If you can tell me an alternative to why everything came into existence from nothing in a blink of an eye, and then progressed to what it is now, and us having the ability to ponder our existance, then feel free to enlighten me, otherwise my thoughts on the whole thing having some kind of intelligent design and point we eventually get are as valid as anyone elses thoughts.

 

If you dont like them, then dont think about them, you aint gonna change them.

[mæŋksmən]

Do you know if there is actually a blue monster standing behind you everytime you write your posts but that it disappears everytime you turn around? Would that be a valid claim if I believed it?

 

 

No the truth is you dont know for sure whether you are a figment of my imagination or i a figment of yours.

 

oh and by the way, the more your rail against religous types, the more opportunity you give them to strut their stuff, therefore defeating your own objective..

[La_Dolce_Vita]

No its you that doesnt get it, i make no claims, i merely pass on my thoughts, no matter how clever we think we are, we know next to nothing, we know abit about our universe, we know enough to know, that we dont even know what 90% of the universe consists of.

You have made a judgement that there is a 50/50 chance of the universe being created by some creator. And you also think it is a distinct possibility.

 

If you can tell me an alternative to why everything came into existence from nothing in a blink of an eye, and then progressed to what it is now, and us having the ability to ponder our existance, then feel free to enlighten me, otherwise my thoughts on the whole thing having some kind of intelligent design and point we eventually get are as valid as anyone elses thoughts.

I don't need to provide alternatives. I don't need to provide anything. In the absence of knowledge I do not make a claim or judgement, such as it being likely or a distinct possibility that a creator did it. But you have done so. Why?

 

If you dont like them, then dont think about them, you aint gonna change them.

But you present them on here. If you are making such judgements then we will consider them, as to whether they make sense.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

No the truth is you dont know for sure whether you are a figment of my imagination or i a figment of yours.

That's right! I don't know for sure. In fact I haven't got a clue why or how the Big Bang happened. But that doesn't make me think there was a creator who probably did it. No reason why I would think this.

 

oh and by the way, the more your rail against religous types, the more opportunity you give them to strut their stuff, therefore defeating your own objective..

Strut what? The fact that they are being attacked and feel hard done by? Well I am afraid that is the only way to go to see an end or a great decline in religions. They have be challenged because of what they do to people and socially admired irrational beliefs need to challenged for the impact they have on our society and people's mind. In any case, it isn't religious TYPES I rail against. I don't believe there are any types. It is religious beliefs that I object and we are predisposed to indulge in such things. But we ought not to.

[Lao]

i make no claims, i merely pass on my thoughts, no matter how clever we think we are, we know next to nothing, we know abit about our universe, we know enough to know, that we dont even know what 90% of the universe consists of.

 

 

I've heard similar arguments many times giving religions wriggle room.

 

"have scientist turned over every stone, and looked into every corner of the unknown depths of space to prove that there is no god"

 

"well obviously not"

 

"ergo, virgin birth and talking snake"

 

It one thing to say that there could be a deity out there unbeknowst to us, but so many religious zealots use this argument to justify their belief in the idea of a personal god.

[mæŋksmən]

i make no claims, i merely pass on my thoughts, no matter how clever we think we are, we know next to nothing, we know abit about our universe, we know enough to know, that we dont even know what 90% of the universe consists of.

 

 

I've heard similar arguments many times giving religions wriggle room.

 

"have scientist turned over every stone, and looked into every corner of the unknown depths of space to prove that there is no god"

 

"well obviously not"

 

"ergo, virgin birth and talking snake"

 

It one thing to say that there could be a deity out there unbeknowst to us, but so many religious zealots use this argument to justify their belief in the idea of a personal god.

But i have zero interest in religion as an answer, or any other myth, i leave that to the intellectual types that take the trouble to read it.

 

You people mixup mans Inhumanity to man with creation/big bang and mans made myth, i dont, i just ponder the possibilities from what science has gleaned so far, or rather the blanks that science leaves in its knowledge.

 

Maybe its just the way my brain works, but i think theres a point to creation and our place in it, a point we eventually get.

When i say creation i mean the momment that everything popped into exstence, from nothing.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

There's seems to be little point in pressing the matter, as it would be repetitious. You appear to have an irrational belief that the universe has a point. There is some underlying intelligence behind or meaning behind it all. My interest is not to disabuse you of that, although it would be a good thing if it is irrational, but just want to know why you have such a curious perspective.

[mæŋksmən]

Irrational to whome you, yet you offer no more of an alternative than it is all here, cos it just is.

 

Maybe its just our chrysalis stage or equivalent, maybe just another incarnation to experience, the possibilities are endless, one thing is for sure, our awareness makes us unique in all of creation so far, there will be a reason for that.

You cannot see or touch what makes you YOU, we are all individuals, how does chemistry or randomness account for that.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Irrational, yes, because you have nothing that would give indicate that there might be an intelligence behind it. It might be possible, but there does not appear to have anything that offers the impression that there is an intelligence.

 

You have already stated the existence of universe and how it came to be seems 'strange' and you have mentioned that there seems to be a point to it all. What leads you to these conclusions?

 

Are you asking how chemistry accounts for the fact that we have minds and are conscious? Does it not appear to you to be the case that our biological and chemical make-up of our brains results in a human brain capable of generating consciousness?