Burning Holy Books

[Chinahand]

Being a Bondsman to a jew in biblical times was no bad thing. The Bondsman was assured of food, clothing, housing, and just treatment with the protection of the law.

Spook did you read the passage I quoted - it directly says the Bondsman has NO protection of the law. The owner shall NOT be punished for beating his servants - as long as he doesn't kill them immediately (or knock their teeth or eyes out - in which case he must free them).

 

You are blind - read what it says - God says you can beat them, they are the owners property (or money if you want to talk 17th century English). You think that is ok do you?

[jimbms]

Oh behave CH, spook is a religous fanatic, he will only see what he wants to see and will believe every word his story book says. In fact he is quite a dream customer for any businness, I bet he always believes the cheque is in the post.

[Evil Goblin]

China - wherever did you get the idea that the God of Exodus, etc. should be a kindly being? He was a right sod! Maybe no bad thing in those days for keeping a wandering tribe in some sort of decent order. The beneficient God the Father is a much later creation.

 

It is also appropriate to remember that the provisions of the Law relating to, amongst other things, slaves are certainly a later invention, after the Israelites had conquered Caanan. When wandering in the Sinai they would be unlikely to have had many, if any, slaves/bondsmen and the development of specific rules for treating them is much more likely to date from later on in Caanan.

[Evil Goblin]

There's nothing wrong with bondage in modern times, in fact it can be fun.

Does your wife know about this enjoyment of yours?

[mæŋksmən]

Well if i am right both you and LDV are in for a nice surprise...

Why do you say this Manksman?

 

You think when you breathe out your last breathe thats the end, nothing more, finito, i dont.

 

If i am right and there is a reason for our existance, then theres more to it than you died believing.

However once youve had 2 or 3 people breath out their last breathe whilst you have your arms around them you may think different eventually.

[spook]

Being a Bondsman to a jew in biblical times was no bad thing. The Bondsman was assured of food, clothing, housing, and just treatment with the protection of the law.

Spook did you read the passage I quoted - it directly says the Bondsman has NO protection of the law. The owner shall NOT be punished for beating his servants - as long as he doesn't kill them immediately (or knock their teeth or eyes out - in which case he must free them).

 

You are blind - read what it says - God says you can beat them, they are the owners property (or money if you want to talk 17th century English). You think that is ok do you?

 

I have read what it says, you misunderstand what it means.

[jimbms]

There's nothing wrong with bondage in modern times, in fact it can be fun.

Does your wife know about this enjoyment of yours?

I suspect she does but for some reason I can never remember to ask her when she is in mid swing with the flogger.

[Chinahand]

I have read what it says, you misunderstand what it means.

Ah I misunderstand - So please do tell me what does it mean?

 

Does it mean that the master can or can't beat their servants?

 

If a servant is beaten and dies then and there what happens to the owner?

 

If a servant is beaten and dies a day later what happens to the owner?

 

If a servant is beaten and dies two days later what happens to the owner?

 

If a servant is beaten and dies three days later what happens to the owner?

 

Please don't quibble about the meaning of servant and owner - the issue is what punishment God has ordained for someone who has beaten their bondsman to death and has revealed through Exodus 21:20-21.

[Chinahand]

China - wherever did you get the idea that the God of Exodus, etc. should be a kindly being? He was a right sod! Maybe no bad thing in those days for keeping a wandering tribe in some sort of decent order. The beneficient God the Father is a much later creation.

 

It is also appropriate to remember that the provisions of the Law relating to, amongst other things, slaves are certainly a later invention, after the Israelites had conquered Caanan. When wandering in the Sinai they would be unlikely to have had many, if any, slaves/bondsmen and the development of specific rules for treating them is much more likely to date from later on in Caanan.

Evil Goblin, I am just questioning Christians who tell me God is all loving kindly etc - I have no evidence what so ever for this, and when these same Christians point to the Bible as the inspired word of God I look at it and agree with you.

 

The point is I suspect neither you or I beleive in this supernatural entity - while the Christians do. They believe God is omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omnipresent, unchanging etc and they seem not to be able to see the irony in this beleif when it is contrasted with the bible.

 

And please the evidence the Jews came out of Egypt doesn't exist - The archaeology points very much to Jewish culture developing indigineously within Caanan - villages without pig bones! The only source for them wandering Sinai is the book we are discussing which is not a reliable guide to either history or an unchanging God.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

You think when you breathe out your last breathe thats the end, nothing more, finito, i dont.

But why? What makes you think there is anything after death?

 

If i am right and there is a reason for our existance, then theres more to it than you died believing.

However once youve had 2 or 3 people breath out their last breathe whilst you have your arms around them you may think different eventually.

Well even if our minds somehow exist past death that does not necessarily mean there is a point to our existence or reason for it. It might simply mean that our existence has moved on to a different form for a yet unknown reason. But really, we are jumping ahead, because there is no evidence for any existence after death. No reason to believe it. Another irrational belief.

 

And returning to your assumptions about a creator, were there something after death there is again no reason to think that such a existence would make one realise there was a creator, nevermind meeting it.

 

I have no idea why you think that people dying in my arms would make me think there is something after death..

[mæŋksmən]

Its you LDV that keeps bangin on about a creator not i.

 

I simply maintain in my own irrational way, that the big bang, and everything that exists, the way it exists is not just randon chance, my feelings are there is design behind it.

Your quite within your right to think the opposite, that everything as it exists now is down to pure randomness, i however never will.

[spook]

Ah I misunderstand - So please do tell me what does it mean?

 

Does it mean that the master can or can't beat their servants?

 

Yes. The choice is the master’s to make.

 

If a servant is beaten and dies then and there what happens to the owner?

 

He is subject to the law

 

If a servant is beaten and dies a day later what happens to the owner?

 

He is subject to the law

 

If a servant is beaten and dies two days later what happens to the owner?

 

He is subject to the law

 

If a servant is beaten and dies three days later what happens to the owner?

 

He is subject to the law.

 

Please don't quibble about the meaning of servant and owner - the issue is what punishment God has ordained for someone who has beaten their bondsman to death and has revealed through Exodus 21:20-21.

 

All that I will do would be to repeat what is written in The Bible, especially the whole of Exodus 20.

 

Now I will obey the advice in Matthew 7:6. This has gone beyond discussing The Bible and salvation through Jesus.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

You keep evading or backtracking. You have mentioned the distinct possibility of a creator and you have mentioned your belief in an afterlife.

 

I simply maintain in my own irrational way, that the big bang, and everything that exists, the way it exists is not just randon chance, my feelings are there is design behind it.

A design? That implies an designer. But that's fine. If you recognise this to be irrational then that's the end of it. Whereas I would rather take a rational approach. And I don't think things are random, per se. I recognise that things happen as a result of processed government by rules and laws that have been discovered by science, laws of physics and all that.

[jimbms]

ok mæŋksmən, so who made the designer?

[mæŋksmən]

no idea jim, what made the atoms that spewed forth in the blink off an eye in the big bang, form our universe, and all the other universes out there.

why didnt they all just free float like a bowl full off fish eggs.

 

I will make it easier for you, we know roughly what 10% of the known mass of our universe is, what does the other 90% of the known mass that makes up our universe consist of, and how is that mass invisible to us.