Uk Defence Cuts

[P.K.]

The uk situation is far worse than here, and they basically have no way out except drastic change.

 

How very strange. A real economist writing here disagrees with ThatchPin. I wonder which one of them has got it wrong?

 

I'm getting a bit tired of the spin-bollocks from this bunch of shysters. They claim it's a "record" deficit. However the price of a Mars Bar is a "record" as well in £-s-d. However as a percentage of GDP it's only about a fifth of the deficit that the UK had late forties early fifties. This is their excuse to do what tories do best. Hit the most vulnerable and at the same time look out for tory voters. The idea of this is a hope that things for tory voters will be rosy in time for the next election. As for the rest of the population, well, fuck 'em - they don't vote tory!

 

They make me puke...

[pongo]

As for what we will all now face as the UK cuts start to bite, blame that on the evil of socialism, even in its perverted form of New Labour led by the self confessed liar, Blair.

 

From this interesting item by Jonathan Freedland at The Guardian.

 

If Labour's spending was so wildly out of control, why did the Tories promise to match their plans, pound for pound, all the way until November 2008? Why didn't Osborne and Cameron howl in protest at the time?

 

This is why Ed Balls was right to declare in his summer Bloomberg lecture .. that "it is a question of fact that we entered this financial crisis with low inflation, low interest rates, low unemployment and the lowest net debt of any large G7 country".

 

Some will say that Labour .. bore some particular responsibility ... through Brown's indulgence of the City and light-touch regulation of finance. Some can say that – but not the Tories. The only problem they had with Brown's deregulation is that there wasn't more of it. One small reminder: Cameron endorsed John Redwood's 2007 report on competitiveness which declared that there was "no need to continue" to regulate mortgage provision – this just as the contagion of sub-prime mortgages was about to take down the world banking system.

 

Which brings us to the real source of the deficit: the colossal borrowing Labour had to undertake in order to prevent the crash of 2008 engulfing the entire economy.

 

So should the banks have been allowed to collapse and the economy with them ? How would that have affected the Manx banking sector ?

[magneto]

 

Do away with the costly inter-forces rivalries, the out dated pomp and ceremony & a major cull in the overstaffed, top heavy managerial (read MOD) and senior officer classes.

 

Personally I think the UK should look towards an integrated defence force akin to the US Marines Corps, One force that covers Air, Land and Sea.

Wouldn't provide savings. And inter-service rivalry isn't much of an issue these days given the 'jointery' that is essential to conducted warfare these days, especially in the form of Britain's expeditionary campaigns.

 

You stand corrected on this point, Now that budgets are being cut (and have been scaling down for sometime) Inter-service rivalry is worst than ever, take a look at the recent Army/RAF spat over the Blackhawk vs 'Super' Lynx debacle. Yet again the tax payer and troops on the ground will pay the price because the brass wouldn't play nice.

[MilitantDogOwner]

 

Do away with the costly inter-forces rivalries, the out dated pomp and ceremony & a major cull in the overstaffed, top heavy managerial (read MOD) and senior officer classes.

 

Personally I think the UK should look towards an integrated defence force akin to the US Marines Corps, One force that covers Air, Land and Sea.

Wouldn't provide savings. And inter-service rivalry isn't much of an issue these days given the 'jointery' that is essential to conducted warfare these days, especially in the form of Britain's expeditionary campaigns.

 

You stand corrected on this point, Now that budgets are being cut (and have been scaling down for sometime) Inter-service rivalry is worst than ever, take a look at the recent Army/RAF spat over the Blackhawk vs 'Super' Lynx debacle. Yet again the tax payer and troops on the ground will pay the price because the brass wouldn't play nice.

 

Not mention the debacles of buying the over priced L85 (SA80) over the Colt M4/M16 weapons system, Euro fighter, BAE systems. All costly mistakes by the MOD Procurement department.

[angrydave]

 

Do away with the costly inter-forces rivalries, the out dated pomp and ceremony & a major cull in the overstaffed, top heavy managerial (read MOD) and senior officer classes.

 

Personally I think the UK should look towards an integrated defence force akin to the US Marines Corps, One force that covers Air, Land and Sea.

Wouldn't provide savings. And inter-service rivalry isn't much of an issue these days given the 'jointery' that is essential to conducted warfare these days, especially in the form of Britain's expeditionary campaigns.

 

You stand corrected on this point, Now that budgets are being cut (and have been scaling down for sometime) Inter-service rivalry is worst than ever, take a look at the recent Army/RAF spat over the Blackhawk vs 'Super' Lynx debacle. Yet again the tax payer and troops on the ground will pay the price because the brass wouldn't play nice.

 

Not mention the debacles of buying the over priced L85 (SA80) over the Colt M4/M16 weapons system, Euro fighter, BAE systems. All costly mistakes by the MOD Procurement department.

FYI, the afore mentioned SA80 was an awfull choice, constantly jammin ( not bob style?!), you could cock it and put one in the chamber by standing it on its butt a bit sharply, not ideal if your in public, and also during ceramonial use, the bayonet was at face level,and did cut a good few people,and not always the person holding it! It doesn't weigh much though so every cloud and all that.

[MilitantDogOwner]

 

Do away with the costly inter-forces rivalries, the out dated pomp and ceremony & a major cull in the overstaffed, top heavy managerial (read MOD) and senior officer classes.

 

Personally I think the UK should look towards an integrated defence force akin to the US Marines Corps, One force that covers Air, Land and Sea.

Wouldn't provide savings. And inter-service rivalry isn't much of an issue these days given the 'jointery' that is essential to conducted warfare these days, especially in the form of Britain's expeditionary campaigns.

 

You stand corrected on this point, Now that budgets are being cut (and have been scaling down for sometime) Inter-service rivalry is worst than ever, take a look at the recent Army/RAF spat over the Blackhawk vs 'Super' Lynx debacle. Yet again the tax payer and troops on the ground will pay the price because the brass wouldn't play nice.

 

Not mention the debacles of buying the over priced L85 (SA80) over the Colt M4/M16 weapons system, Euro fighter, BAE systems. All costly mistakes by the MOD Procurement department.

FYI, the afore mentioned SA80 was an awfull choice, constantly jammin ( not bob style?!), you could cock it and put one in the chamber by standing it on its butt a bit sharply, not ideal if your in public, and also during ceramonial use, the bayonet was at face level,and did cut a good few people,and not always the person holding it! It doesn't weigh much though so every cloud and all that.

 

The biggest problem with the L85 was the locking spline design. The weapon was so poorly made originally that the locking splines would engage fully and it was possible to cock the weapon but not be able to fire the weapon as the firing pin would not be able to fully strike the base of the round. Thus a "Forward Assist" was added to the weapon drills. Oh wait does the M4/M16 have a "FOrward Assist" button build into it...oh wait yes it does but it is rarely used as the weapon is designed and manufactured correctly.

 

Oh and the fact the weapon is almost half the cost. But lets not worry too much about that....(and the fact that the SAS, SBS and Special Recon Regiment refuse to use the L85, prefering to use....thats right the M4/M16).

[Alias]

That's a lot of cuts to the MOD's services for what's only a 2% cut each year in real terms. The MOD is over-committed, and its presence in Afghanistan is hurting its actual defensive capability.

[MilitantDogOwner]

That's a lot of cuts to the MOD's services for what's only a 2% cut each year in real terms. The MOD is over-committed, and its presence in Afghanistan is hurting its actual defensive capability.

 

The MOD is vastly over staffed and heremoiging funds.

 

The Armed Forces is critically under staffed and don't have two coppers to rub together (and are expecting to achieve the impossible with it).

 

Thats the distinction alot of people fail to grasp.

[gazza]

"Never forget your personal weapon is made by the lowest bidder..."

 

 

 

According to my Grauniad after this round of cuts operations like the Falklands, Afghanistan, Bosnia etc will probably be beyond the UK's military capabilities. What a fantastic message to send to the Taliban not. Clowns...

 

Just when argentina is pressing over the falklands and its oil.

they could see this as an easy target to take back as the uk is stuffed now.

 

Sounds far fetched but the thought of 100s of millions ££ of oil is worth having a go at by them if they decided to again

[manxy]

I feel some type of loss to those who've enlisted many years ago in the belief that the forces (whichever they may be) were not only a job, but a career for life. Countless hours of training, precision, decisive strategies were built to create the efficient war machine where professionalism and skills saved tens if not hundreds of lives.

 

I look at the depleted forces now and wonder as to what will be left. Is this just going to be a pick 'n' mix where Thunderbird three chooses the correct vehicle for a particular job or will some rational thought be taken where strategic influence rules the day and commonsense prevails?

 

Interesting moments but whatever happens next, only time will tell and whether the Argentinians wish to claim the Falklands or the Spanish, Gibraltar, now appears to be the optimum time to do so and I await the 'I told you so's' from one angle or another in attempts to prove a point or two, but the question still remains, at what cost?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

You stand corrected on this point, Now that budgets are being cut (and have been scaling down for sometime) Inter-service rivalry is worst than ever, take a look at the recent Army/RAF spat over the Blackhawk vs 'Super' Lynx debacle. Yet again the tax payer and troops on the ground will pay the price because the brass wouldn't play nice.

 

Debacle, debacle. These aren't major issues. It's not as if we are talking about the inter-service fighting prior to the 1970s here. These issues are an understandable result of different services that have different needs trying to compete to have them met as well as possible. But this is the problem of Britain's funding for defence. It decides upon acquiring these weapons or platforms that makes cuts or decides to opt for cheaper options. This creates more debate about how find economical alternatives.

I think Britain needs to be more realistic about what it can afford and what it can't. Trying to get the best isn't working. But then this is the result of Britain trying to retain its standing in the world with limited resources. It's the inevitable decline of Britain.

 

Problems are not going to be solved by 'culling' staff from the MOD. (What a horrible term for putting people out of work), although savings have to be found from doing so and then trying to find these people new jobs.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I feel some type of loss to those who've enlisted many years ago in the belief that the forces (whichever they may be) were not only a job, but a career for life. Countless hours of training, precision, decisive strategies were built to create the efficient war machine where professionalism and skills saved tens if not hundreds of lives.

 

Interesting moments but whatever happens next, only time will tell and whether the Argentinians wish to claim the Falklands or the Spanish, Gibraltar, now appears to be the optimum time to do so and I await the 'I told you so's' from one angle or another in attempts to prove a point or two, but the question still remains, at what cost?

Don't be sad. Britain as seen hundreds of thousands of redundancies due to the economic crisis. There you had people who thought they had careers and had worked hard for them. Then they are put out of work. If you're are not sad about that then don't shed tears just because it is the Armed Forces.

 

Argentina invading the Falklands? Bit far fetched.

Spain invading Gibraltar? Bit far fetched and that would certainly make the shit hit the fan for Spain and Britain.

[MilitantDogOwner]

I feel some type of loss to those who've enlisted many years ago in the belief that the forces (whichever they may be) were not only a job, but a career for life. Countless hours of training, precision, decisive strategies were built to create the efficient war machine where professionalism and skills saved tens if not hundreds of lives.

 

Interesting moments but whatever happens next, only time will tell and whether the Argentinians wish to claim the Falklands or the Spanish, Gibraltar, now appears to be the optimum time to do so and I await the 'I told you so's' from one angle or another in attempts to prove a point or two, but the question still remains, at what cost?

Don't be sad. Britain as seen hundreds of thousands of redundancies due to the economic crisis. There you had people who thought they had careers and had worked hard for them. Then they are put out of work. If you're are not sad about that then don't shed tears just because it is the Armed Forces.

 

Argentina invading the Falklands? Bit far fetched.

Spain invading Gibraltar? Bit far fetched and that would certainly make the shit hit the fan for Spain and Britain.

 

Actually in the last 5 years there have been 7 confirmed landfall incursions on Falklands soil by unknown parties. Not hard to work out where they have come from.

[spook]

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Yes, actually the UK does need a serious increase in unemployment combined with a massive cut back in benefits payments in what is supported as well as the amounts being paid.

 

You sneaky troll. Go on...how do you think it is right to have unemployed but WITH a cutback on the benefits associated with it. Do you want a return of the workhouse?

To begin with I’m not a Troll. Secondly there needs to be a significant cut in the standard of living to what can be afforded, not what is wanted and if part of that means putting a number of people who won’t or can’t support themselves out of subsidised individual housing into communal housing in which they work in order to provide a degree of self financing then bring it on. YOU may call it a return to workhouses, I call it common sense in the face of a terrible situation brought about by socialism,

 

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Time the UK defence forces were used for just that. Defence of the UK. As for what we will all now face as the UK cuts start to bite, blame that on the evil of socialism, even in its perverted form of New Labour led by the self confessed liar, Blair.

 

Doesn't make sense. I would agree that defence ought to be designed to protect UK citizens, but it is the capitalist world we live in that leads those in power to seek ways to maximise economic and strategic influence by having such a large defence force.

Nonsense.

 

The evils of socialism are not why the economy fell apart and Labour were not certainly not shy about grand spending on UK defence.

What planet are you on? It’s certainly not the planet Earth.

.

[P.K.]

Actually in the last 5 years there have been 7 confirmed landfall incursions on Falklands soil by unknown parties. Not hard to work out where they have come from.

 

Errr, the sea?