Uk Defence Cuts

[jimbms]

Do away with the costly inter-forces rivalries, the out dated pomp and ceremony & a major cull in the overstaffed, top heavy managerial (read MOD) and senior officer classes.

 

Personally I think the UK should look towards an integrated defence force akin to the US Marines Corps, One force that covers Air, Land and Sea.

Wouldn't provide savings. And inter-service rivalry isn't much of an issue these days given the 'jointery' that is essential to conducted warfare these days, especially in the form of Britain's expeditionary campaigns.

 

You stand corrected on this point, Now that budgets are being cut (and have been scaling down for sometime) Inter-service rivalry is worst than ever, take a look at the recent Army/RAF spat over the Blackhawk vs 'Super' Lynx debacle. Yet again the tax payer and troops on the ground will pay the price because the brass wouldn't play nice.

 

Not mention the debacles of buying the over priced L85 (SA80) over the Colt M4/M16 weapons system, Euro fighter, BAE systems. All costly mistakes by the MOD Procurement department.

FYI, the afore mentioned SA80 was an awfull choice, constantly jammin ( not bob style?!), you could cock it and put one in the chamber by standing it on its butt a bit sharply, not ideal if your in public, and also during ceramonial use, the bayonet was at face level,and did cut a good few people,and not always the person holding it! It doesn't weigh much though so every cloud and all that.

 

The biggest problem with the L85 was the locking spline design. The weapon was so poorly made originally that the locking splines would engage fully and it was possible to cock the weapon but not be able to fire the weapon as the firing pin would not be able to fully strike the base of the round. Thus a "Forward Assist" was added to the weapon drills. Oh wait does the M4/M16 have a "FOrward Assist" button build into it...oh wait yes it does but it is rarely used as the weapon is designed and manufactured correctly.

 

Oh and the fact the weapon is almost half the cost. But lets not worry too much about that....(and the fact that the SAS, SBS and Special Recon Regiment refuse to use the L85, prefering to use....thats right the M4/M16).

 

You also forgot initial models could not be used by left handed persons without the spent cartridge ejecting into their face, not sure if it has been corrected. Also without electronic sighting it's zeroing lasted about 3 rounds.

[Cambon]

The uk situation is far worse than here, and they basically have no way out except drastic change.

 

How very strange. A real economist writing here disagrees with ThatchPin. I wonder which one of them has got it wrong?

 

 

Interesting article by an underpaid teacher who supplements his income by writing for a tabloid. A real economist? Huh!

 

Now, I made two points. Firstly, that the situation in the uk is far worse than here. It is. Our government has savings, the uk government over the past few decades, and expecially the last 10 years, has racked up a defeceit of nearly 60% of their annual income, and growing by just short of a further 20% a year. If that was the overdraft on your current account, what would you do? I would cut spending immediately, and look for ways of recouping funds to pay it off. Apparently, you and your teacher friend would go to a credit card company and borrow more.

 

The second point is that a drastic change is necessary. And, it certainly is. Failure to accept the fact that the rampant years of living beyond your means are over, and keep on borrowing and spending will end up with a defeceit so big that that your great grandchildren will be bankrupted by it. Do you really think we should pass this problem on to the future generations? Actually, being a "red" you probably do, because that is the labour way. You pass your mess on to the next government to fix, why not pass on your debts to your children to sort out for you.

[P.K.]

Interesting article by an underpaid teacher who supplements his income by writing for a tabloid. A real economist? Huh!

 

Now, I made two points. Firstly, that the situation in the uk is far worse than here. It is. Our government has savings, the uk government over the past few decades, and expecially the last 10 years, has racked up a defeceit of nearly 60% of their annual income, and growing by just short of a further 20% a year. If that was the overdraft on your current account, what would you do? I would cut spending immediately, and look for ways of recouping funds to pay it off. Apparently, you and your teacher friend would go to a credit card company and borrow more.

 

The second point is that a drastic change is necessary. And, it certainly is. Failure to accept the fact that the rampant years of living beyond your means are over, and keep on borrowing and spending will end up with a defeceit so big that that your great grandchildren will be bankrupted by it. Do you really think we should pass this problem on to the future generations? Actually, being a "red" you probably do, because that is the labour way. You pass your mess on to the next government to fix, why not pass on your debts to your children to sort out for you.

 

The Grauniad a tabloid! How dare you sir! Actually I was a Yellow but now I've been dis-enfranchised by "sell-out" Clegg, much to my disgust, I don't actually know who to vote for.

 

Complete cobblers from ThatchPin as per usual. So according to you the Labour lot had no plans to cut the deficit then? They were planning to cut the deficit as well but not so "rigorously" shall we say, so there goes the entire lynchpin of your so-called argument. It's called having a social conscience and a fear of double-dip recession. But hey ThatchPin, as long as it's not tory voters suffering then who cares...

 

PS - ThatchPin - you forgot to mention the "underpaid teacher" in your stupid words is Professor of Economics at Columbia University and no doubt handsomely rewarded for it. As to your even more stupid "A real economist? Huh!" he's also the winner of the Nobel Prize in - Economics! Don't tell me you deliberately forgot to mention that - surely not!

 

With you posting on here I can't help thinking that somewhere there's a village missing it's idiot...

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Actually in the last 5 years there have been 7 confirmed landfall incursions on Falklands soil by unknown parties. Not hard to work out where they have come from.

What's your point? Do you believe this is a prelude to an invasion?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

To begin with I’m not a Troll.

Very hard to be convinced otherwise given the topics you discuss.

 

Secondly there needs to be a significant cut in the standard of living to what can be afforded, not what is wanted and if part of that means putting a number of people who won’t or can’t support themselves out of subsidised individual housing into communal housing in which they work in order to provide a degree of self financing then bring it on. YOU may call it a return to workhouses, I call it common sense in the face of a terrible situation brought about by socialism,

It is interested what you think should happen to people who CAN'T work.

 

But I am fascinated at how you think socialism has brought this situation about. Go on...explain.

 

Nonsense.

If you can't explain why then your use of nonsense becomes pointless.

Make your argument.

[Cambon]

Complete cobblers from ThatchPin as per usual. So according to you the Labour lot had no plans to cut the deficit then? They were planning to cut the deficit as well but not so "rigorously" shall we say, so there goes the entire lynchpin of your so-called argument. It's called having a social conscience and a fear of double-dip recession. But hey ThatchPin, as long as it's not tory voters suffering then who cares...

 

Labour knew for the last 18 months that they did not stand a cat in hells chance of getting back in so basically said what they wanted to. Or, more to the point, said what the electorate wanted to hear, whilst in reality screwing the hell out of everyone and everything. Bastards!

 

PS - ThatchPin - you forgot to mention the "underpaid teacher" in your stupid words is Professor of Economics at Columbia University and no doubt handsomely rewarded for it. As to your even more stupid "A real economist? Huh!" he's also the winner of the Nobel Prize in - Economics! Don't tell me you deliberately forgot to mention that - surely not!

Does that make him right? Is what he as written what he actually believes in his heart? Probably not. He is writing a political piece for a political paper.

 

With you posting on here I can't help thinking that somewhere there's a village missing it's idiot...

 

I did not know you had left home! Are they missing your chirpy little self, sat on the wall outside the pub?

[MilitantDogOwner]

Actually in the last 5 years there have been 7 confirmed landfall incursions on Falklands soil by unknown parties. Not hard to work out where they have come from.

What's your point? Do you believe this is a prelude to an invasion?

 

No. The Argies can't afford to go to war over the Falklands even more so than the UK.

 

Doesn't mean there hasn't been intelligence gathering ventures onto the Falklands though.

[Alias]

Doesn't mean there hasn't been intelligence gathering ventures onto the Falklands though.

What intelligence do they already not know about the Falklands?

[MilitantDogOwner]

Doesn't mean there hasn't been intelligence gathering ventures onto the Falklands though.

What intelligence do they already not know about the Falklands?

 

Current troop deployments, current vehicles deployed on the island, what aircraft are currently in use on the island.

 

Guess what the Falklands war was over 20 years ago. Alot has changed since then.

 

For example the RIC (Resident Infantry Company) changes regularly. I'd much rather invade when a normal IC is stationed there than when the Gurkhas were there.

[John Wright]

Even Argentina has access to satellite surveillance that will give them all the info they need.

 

Just surprised why no one has come back on my post above

 

Who are the UK defending against that requires all this hardware, equipment, planes, boats and tanks. What is the credible risk.

 

Why are they engaging in Iraq and Afghansitan at vast expense

 

What would happen if they got rid of the lot? Or merged with a small elite European force for emergencies?

 

Would the UK be invaded? if so by whom? Realistically would Spain invade Gibraltar? has the UK a right to it anyway, it's just the spoils of war? Is defending a few thousand sheep, penguins and falklanders really something to spend billions on, year after year?

[MilitantDogOwner]

Even Argentina has access to satellite surveillance that will give them all the info they need.

 

Just surprised why no one has come back on my post above

 

Who are the UK defending against that requires all this hardware, equipment, planes, boats and tanks. What is the credible risk.

 

Why are they engaging in Iraq and Afghansitan at vast expense

 

What would happen if they got rid of the lot? Or merged with a small elite European force for emergencies?

 

Would the UK be invaded? if so by whom? Realistically would Spain invade Gibraltar? has the UK a right to it anyway, it's just the spoils of war? Is defending a few thousand sheep, penguins and falklanders really something to spend billions on, year after year?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Intelligence gathering operations, if well known, indicate other things than an impending or near-future invasion.

[pongo]

Who are the UK defending against that requires all this hardware, equipment, planes, boats and tanks. What is the credible risk.

 

The Navy and the RAF seem to have even been talking about the Russian military threat again lately - eg the RAF releasing a cool photo of a Russian bomber at the edge of UK airspace - eg the Navy talking about a UK Trident submarines being shadowed by the Russians.

 

"The Russians have been playing games with us, the Americans and French in the North Atlantic," a senior Navy commander said.

"We have put a lot of resources into protecting Trident because we cannot afford by any stretch to let the Russians learn the acoustic profile of one of our bombers as that would compromise the deterrent."

 

Perhaps the reason these sort of stories make the news lately is do with lobbying over the cuts rather than this sort of thing being especially out of the ordinary.

[triskelion]

I look at the depleted forces now and wonder as to what will be left. Is this just going to be a pick 'n' mix where Thunderbird three chooses the correct vehicle for a particular job or will some rational thought be taken where strategic influence rules the day and commonsense prevails?

You're thinking of Thunderbird 2. Thunderbird 3 was the space rocket.

[Albert Tatlock]

I look at the depleted forces now and wonder as to what will be left. Is this just going to be a pick 'n' mix where Thunderbird three chooses the correct vehicle for a particular job or will some rational thought be taken where strategic influence rules the day and commonsense prevails?

You're thinking of Thunderbird 2. Thunderbird 3 was the space rocket.

£54321...how much our government and bloated civil service £costs us every hour of the day.

 

Work it out on a turnover and spend of £600M a year.

 

Actually, it's £14K an hour more than that