Uk Defence Cuts

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Who are the UK defending against that requires all this hardware, equipment, planes, boats and tanks. What is the credible risk.

You know this though. It is simply to maintain Britain influence in the world. Defence is not limited to UK homeland defence.

Britain is a declining power that is seeking to hold on to its influence as best it can with its limited resources. Without the capability for worldwide (limited) power projection Britain would be reduced in its bargaining postion and credibility as a world player and a state with a say in the world. And were Britain's economic interests to be at stake, Britain would like to have the ability to coerce other states if need be.

[John Wright]

In reality that pipe dream ended at Suez. Although some politicians and our military industrial complex would deny it. our position in Europe, or our realtionship with any trading nation or bloc has nothing to do with our military power, or lack of it.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

The illusion that the Britsh government and military had of Britain being a world power ended at Suez. Britain had to re-evulate its role in the world. But military power has always been essential to Britain's position as a player in world affairs. It is Britain's military power that allows it to have greater clout at the bargaining table and to be seen as part of the team in conducting modern policing (peacekeeping) roles with other nations.

[John Wright]

No, that is what the military industrial complex wants you to think. And with your politics you should not believe them for one moment!

 

Give an example where it has been used and or worked recently.

[ManxTaxPayer]

Give an example where it has been used and or worked recently.

 

The Balkans?

[MilitantDogOwner]

No, that is what the military industrial complex wants you to think. And with your politics you should not believe them for one moment!

 

Give an example where it has been used and or worked recently.

 

Do you own a television or read a newspaper?

 

How times has the British Armed Forces been at the site of a natural disaster to render aid in terms on manpower, training and equipment?

 

What about during the fireman strike a few years ago? Who was it fighting fires while fireman where at the picket line?

 

SAR helicopters up and down the country are guess what.....RAF SAR helicopters.

 

Clearly you're another one who can't tell the difference between the Armed Forces and the bloated money pit that is the MOD.

[John Wright]

No, but you deliberately mis read my question and give an answer that is not an answer to the question

 

Look at what LDV posted and my question. When has the armed fores been used to defend the UK or to advance the UK's economic or other interests since Suez. Falklands apart.

 

Yes it has been used in civil circumstances, that is not the purpose of a Defence Force. Neither is peace keeping or intervention.

 

Policing should be civilain anmd emergencies should be a quasi civilian reserve volunteer matter, a sort of national Guard, same with humantarian aid and assistance

 

The only satisfactory bits of former Yugoslavia are the ones that did it peacefully themselves. UK, EU or UN has not resolved Serbia and its ultra nationalism, nor has it solved Kosovo or FFYRM or anything else. UK must learn that it is economics and development that help to resolve these matters, and politics. Not armed intervention. If that lesson was not learned in Northern Ireland by UK, it is really sad.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

John, the examples that I would give that can be seen would be Operation Palliser (Sierra Leone).

This went some way to re-affirming or confirming the UKs commitment to extra-European affairs - dealing with crises. These sorts of operations build strong relationships with regimes that have been bolstered by military intervention. It is similar to Britain's East Suez roles in the early to mid-60s. However, the Britain can pull off much on its own anymore, but certainly doesn't want to be left out.

 

Another example might be the Armilla Patrol. I think about five or six nations participated in this. The motive was primarily economic and was to protect British interest in the sense of ties to other countries and economic assets.

 

And then there is the economic background to the Iraq war and certainly the economic and strategic benefits that are argued to accrue from the Afghanistan war.

 

Kosovo was a good example. But in giving Kosovo and other example I am not implying that Britain is some force for good or doing the right thing. Only what military power means to Britain and why it is often used.

[MilitantDogOwner]

Also on a near daily basis Russian aircraft test the defences of our Northern Airspace.

 

Several times during my stint in the air defence realm I got to watch over the shoulder of RAF Air Space Controllers as the sent aircraft from the Northern QRF bases to "meet and greet" the Ruskies as they cruised along the edge of our airspace.

 

Your question is an unanswerable one. The only way to answer it would be to completely dissolve the Armed Forces and then see who invades/attacks.

 

It is because we have a standing force at our gates that we haven't been invaded.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

You're talking about something different MilitaryDogOwner. It's not defence from invasion that is in question.

[P.K.]

Labour knew for the last 18 months that they did not stand a cat in hells chance of getting back in so basically said what they wanted to. Or, more to the point, said what the electorate wanted to hear, whilst in reality screwing the hell out of everyone and everything. Bastards!

 

If Labour didn't stand a cat in hells chance of getting back in how come Cameron didn't manage to win then?

 

Oh dear, nor very convincing are you ThatchPin?

 

PS - ThatchPin - you forgot to mention the "underpaid teacher" in your stupid words is Professor of Economics at Columbia University and no doubt handsomely rewarded for it. As to your even more stupid "A real economist? Huh!" he's also the winner of the Nobel Prize in - Economics! Don't tell me you deliberately forgot to mention that - surely not!

 

Does that make him right? Is what he as written what he actually believes in his heart? Probably not. He is writing a political piece for a political paper.

 

I love your "probably not" ThatchPin. I mean, you would know, wouldn't you? Laughable. Let's put it this way ThatchPin, with his credentials I think I'll believe Stiglitz's thinking on the current economic situation rather than yours. No offence, it's just your claims that you know what Stiglitz feels in his heart of hearts seem so far divorced from reality that perhaps you should consider getting some professional help?

 

By the way, you've accidentally put in an extra space here - "a political" should read "apolitical." Happy to help!

 

With you posting on here I can't help thinking that somewhere there's a village missing it's idiot...

 

I did not know you had left home! Are they missing your chirpy little self, sat on the wall outside the pub?

 

Went to Liverpool actually, to see Robbie Plant. We've always been Led Zep fans and really liked "Mighty Rearranger." His collaboration with Alison Krauss on "Rising Sands" really freshened his act up. However according to us the latest "Band of Joy" should be "Bland of Joy" - it really is a bit same old same old. Anyway, last night they played a mix of all sorts including lots of old Zep stuff. It was an excellent gig. Recommended.

[Cambon]

 

If Labour didn't stand a cat in hells chance of getting back in how come Cameron didn't manage to win then?

 

Oh dear, nor very convincing are you ThatchPin?

 

He did. He got the most votes and even your yellow belly friends voted for him.

 

Went to Liverpool actually, to see Robbie Plant. We've always been Led Zep fans and really liked "Mighty Rearranger." His collaboration with Alison Krauss on "Rising Sands" really freshened his act up. However according to us the latest "Band of Joy" should be "Bland of Joy" - it really is a bit same old same old. Anyway, last night they played a mix of all sorts including lots of old Zep stuff. It was an excellent gig. Recommended.

 

Never been a massive fan of Led Zep, but have been a big fan of Alison Krauss for years. "Rising Sands" is really good. I might give "Bland of Joy a miss then". I will look at the tour dates and see where I can pick it up. Probably Dublin. Justin Hayward is doing "War of the Worlds" at the moment and they are in Dublin in a few weeks. I am thinking of that, being a Moody Blues fan.

 

At least you have good taste in music.

[P.K.]

Never been a massive fan of Led Zep, but have been a big fan of Alison Krauss for years. "Rising Sands" is really good. I might give "Bland of Joy a miss then". I will look at the tour dates and see where I can pick it up. Probably Dublin. Justin Hayward is doing "War of the Worlds" at the moment and they are in Dublin in a few weeks. I am thinking of that, being a Moody Blues fan.

 

At least you have good taste in music.

 

To save you looking Alison Krauss does not feature on this tour.

[P.K.]

The only satisfactory bits of former Yugoslavia are the ones that did it peacefully themselves. UK, EU or UN has not resolved Serbia and its ultra nationalism, nor has it solved Kosovo or FFYRM or anything else. UK must learn that it is economics and development that help to resolve these matters, and politics. Not armed intervention. If that lesson was not learned in Northern Ireland by UK, it is really sad.

 

But John, economics, development and politics, presumably democracy, can only succeed in a secure situation.

 

As to the wider issues that really does depend on your point of view, probably politics included. For example, is the UK military currently deployed in Afghanistan making the UK a safer place?

 

Also one aspect of the EU that I've come to expect is how little the member states agree with one another. I suspect an EU based force is a dead duck simply because of this.

[P.K.]

It's comforting to know the Defence of the Realm is in such good hands.