ManxBaz Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Forgot to add, both companies saying this is due to substantial losses and over capacity on Irish Sea routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 104 pages.....jeeeeez louise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Mezerons charter of the Kalana and Kurkse is due to finish at the end of the month, any news if they have extended it? well as the index for shipping goods, or should i say the cost to hire theses ships, has dropped to a vary low lvl since they first hired them, who knows we could see mezeron dropping there costs even more!! These type of ships occupy a specialised niche. The general indices may not fully apply or be relevant. These are such tiny ships. Unless one wants to cause more trouble for the Steampacket with a view to knocking them out the usual tack at this stage is to make more money off lower rates. In order to really get the price of such tonnage ans future market indications one has to consult a short-sea or coastal broker in much the same way as one asks the odds from a Bookie! hmm lets see, big ships move big items or lots of items, this price gos down if the amounts of items to be shipped drops. so less things to move, which would mean less things getting brought, we still need to ship things here in a SMALLER ship, so does have a knock on effect to the price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Mezerons charter of the Kalana and Kurkse is due to finish at the end of the month, any news if they have extended it? well as the index for shipping goods, or should i say the cost to hire theses ships, has dropped to a vary low lvl since they first hired them, who knows we could see mezeron dropping there costs even more!! These type of ships occupy a specialised niche. The general indices may not fully apply or be relevant. These are such tiny ships. Unless one wants to cause more trouble for the Steampacket with a view to knocking them out the usual tack at this stage is to make more money off lower rates. In order to really get the price of such tonnage ans future market indications one has to consult a short-sea or coastal broker in much the same way as one asks the odds from a Bookie! hmm lets see, big ships move big items or lots of items, this price gos down if the amounts of items to be shipped drops. so less things to move, which would mean less things getting brought, we still need to ship things here in a SMALLER ship, so does have a knock on effect to the price No. As I have explained before owners work on time charter equivalent. ie being paid hire and fuel costs daily and all you do is drive the boat around. Your comments relate to freight rates per items of cargo carried. This is a freight tariff market. They would apply to chartered tonnage carrying say single commodity bulk cargo on a per ton basis where it is "up and down" all the time Owners seek to achieve time charter equivalent by way of their freight charges per unit. (It is a back office calculation) If one operates chartered tonnage, and the daily rate of hire for that type falls ie ships can be chartered in at a lower rate, (assuminmg the present Mezeron ships are redelivered/renegotiated, then for as long as you get away with it you continue to charge piece freight at whatever you can get. If the charter rate has fallen and you can take another ship or force a renegotiation then it is normal to not necessarily pass this saving on if saving it be! The Island is a niche market and not really reflected in general Baltic indices etc. When I 'phoned around the market I found it hard to get even brokers specialising in small stuff to take the Isle of Man seriously. ("Oh Coasters then!") If Mezeron paid even 50% less daily charter hire they would still shaft all and sundry for as long as they could get away with it and their profit margins are pretty good right now with hire rates for their type of tonnge being so low (last I looked) Shipping is like that. Rage to riches. Riches to rags. You rape customers when you can! It can all change inside less than 24 hours which is why relying on a speculative charter-based outfit like Mezeron is potentially a risk. One has to think charter market not unitary freight in this instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean South Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 3 Stena Fleetwood-Larne vessels, 3 DFDS Dublin-Birkenhead/Heysham vessels. Fleetwood-Larne closed down. DFDS pulling out of Irish Sea. Forgot to add, both companies saying this is due to substantial losses and over capacity on Irish Sea routes. OK. Just to bring some accuracy and perspective here: A. There weren't/aren't three Stena vessels plying the Larne Fleetwood route. But feel free to correct me and name the vessels if you feel I am incorrect. B. There were only two DFDS Ships on the Irish Sea routes... not three. The routes were bought by Stena who already operated the same routes. This was done in a trade off for an English channel route... @Ian Rush... You seem a tad quiet...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Now my turn for a few real facts, the 3 Fleetwood ships were the Stena Leader, Stena Pioneer and the Stena Seafarer. There were in fact 7 DFDS vessels in the Irish Sea. B'head-Belfast, Mersey Seaways and Lagan Seaways. B'head-Dublin, Dublin Seaways and Liverpool Seaways. Heysham-Belfast, Scotia Seaways and Hibernia Seaways. Heysham-Dublin, Anglia Seaways. All Belfast vessels are to be taken over by Stena Line. All Dublin vessels are to be withdrawn from service on the Irish Sea. Ian Rush has probably got a life and has better things to do than correct you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 DFDS and Stena do not run on the same routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean South Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Ian Rush has probably got a life and has better things to do than correct you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy730 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Now my turn for a few real facts, the 3 Fleetwood ships were the Stena Leader, Stena Pioneer and the Stena Seafarer. There were in fact 7 DFDS vessels in the Irish Sea. B'head-Belfast, Mersey Seaways and Lagan Seaways. B'head-Dublin, Dublin Seaways and Liverpool Seaways. Heysham-Belfast, Scotia Seaways and Hibernia Seaways. Heysham-Dublin, Anglia Seaways. All Belfast vessels are to be taken over by Stena Line. All Dublin vessels are to be withdrawn from service on the Irish Sea. Ian Rush has probably got a life and has better things to do than correct you. All quite sad when these type of services fall by the wayside. But... I can't see what detrimental effect this might have on the Racket... Or, am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 The point I was trying to get across was the detrimental effects of over capacity on a route, exactly the situation there is on the Isle of Man at the moment, also to try to put to bed the general assumption that when you read about cheap fares on other routes the company offering them is in good health and can afford to run at those fares, when quite often it is not the case. These fares are then compared to Packet prices and the slagging off of the SP continues. Hope that makes sense as I've got one eye on the footie at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy730 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) The point I was trying to get across was the detrimental effects of over capacity on a route, exactly the situation there is on the Isle of Man at the moment, OK, i understand what you're getting at... also to try to put to bed the general assumption that when you read about cheap fares on other routes the company offering them is in good health and can afford to run at those fares, when quite often it is not the case. These fares are then compared to Packet prices and the slagging off of the SP continues. Hope that makes sense as I've got one eye on the footie at the moment. Yes, i agree with you there.... Enjoy the football.... Edited January 16, 2011 by Andy730 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 These fares are then compared to Packet prices and the slagging off of the SP continues. Hope that makes sense as I've got one eye on the footie at the moment. But does not mezeron offring the service cheaper, show the slagging off about SP prices, was valid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Not really, SP overheads and commitments to the User Agreement cost considerablely more than Mezeron with their cheap rate charter vessels. SP employ over 300 people, Mezeron I beleive employ about 35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Not really, SP overheads and commitments to the User Agreement cost considerablely more than Mezeron with their cheap rate charter vessels. SP employ over 300 people, Mezeron I beleive employ about 35. Thats not mezerons fault is it. And like we all said in the past the SP problems is not because of mezeron, but because of the loans, with out the loans it would not be a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 What I'm trying to get across is that in the long term it's to no bodies advantage. Both companies will take financial hits, jobs will be lost and the consumer, both passenger and freight, will end up with a poorer service. This was why is was comparing it to Stena/DFDS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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