Andy730 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) The Commadore Clipper is the main Ro/pax vessel running to the Channel Islands, basically doing the same job as the BMC. She is very similar to the BMC, built to fit the run she was to be used on. She had a very serious cardeck fire last year but luckily there were no casualties. Also down that area are Wightlink, another Macquarie purchase. Yes, that's the girl... I was about to say that they are identical, but looking closely, i can see that there're a few differences. The main one appears to be that the bridge seems to be one deck higher. From that, i assume that both ships are related, but with differences. A bit like the Lady of Man, and the Monas Queen were. Edited February 18, 2011 by Andy730 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweek Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Condor is the name for two species of New World vultures. Who'd have thunk it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISS Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Yes both ships came from the same Dutch builder - probably best described as half sisters. I have seen Commodore Clipper but not travelled on her, but those who I know who have travelled suggest she is the better ship. John The Commadore Clipper is the main Ro/pax vessel running to the Channel Islands, basically doing the same job as the BMC. She is very similar to the BMC, built to fit the run she was to be used on. She had a very serious cardeck fire last year but luckily there were no casualties. Also down that area are Wightlink, another Macquarie purchase. Yes, that's the girl... I was about to say that they are identical, but looking closely, i can see that there're a few differences. The main one appears to be that the bridge seems to be one deck higher. From that, i assume that both ships are related, but with differences. A bit like the Lady of Man, and the Monas Queen were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Also any public service contractor or monopoly operator should be made to make full accounts disclosure in the interests of transparency. I think that too. A general question: Take a completely hypothetical example under a completely hypothetical government agreement to provide a completely hypothetical public service - where hypothetical services provider A, was to 'pay off' hypothetical services provider B to 'keep off' his patch and was then to pass on the costs of that directly to the public. Or felt 'forced' to use a sub-contract or issue shares or the like, in order to keep hypothetical operator B off his patch. Do the public need to know that, or is that none of the public's business, and just 'business'? - or am I being too hypothetical? There is a 2009 report on line for Isle of Wight ferries. It is about competition and service. ie The Islanders see their ferries as a "lifeline" and feel that the service has gone, down and that they are charged too much! And that there is lack of competition and the operators make too much money! There are many similarities to the Isle of Man and yet the Isle of Wight has three ferries and one leaves every eight minutes! Imagine! (Maybe all Islanders are moaners?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) There are many similarities to the Isle of Man and yet the Isle of Wight has three ferries and one leaves every eight minutes! Imagine! (Maybe all Islanders are moaners?) not really comparable though for a dormitory island and commuters Wightlink can make around 230 sailings per day Annually Wightlink carries around * 5 million passengers including between 1.8 - 2m foot passengers * 1.2 million cars * Approximately 200,000 freight vehicles * 17,000 coaches Edited February 19, 2011 by Tempus Fugit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monasqueen Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 No, not 3 ferries. 3 routes, with 9 vessels. "We have a modern and comfortable fleet of 9 ships operating on our 3 routes.!" They don't have a wide stretch of often weather affected sea to cross either - maximum crossing time 35 minutes. And none of their shipscould operate in the Irish Sea. "Wightlink sails between the mainland and the Isle of Wight up to 230 times a day on three routes: our car ferries cross between Lymington and Yarmouth and from Portsmouth to Fishbourne in as little as 35 minutes, while modern catamarans zip over to Ryde from Portsmouth in around 22 minutes." On a per mile basis, the Packet comes out cheaper most of the time, but... Wightlink seem to have a lot more offer fares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 You must not forget that Wightlink has competition too. Wightlink has about 60% of the IOW traffic Red Funnel Red Funnel is the 'Original Isle of Wight ferry operator' and now carries in excess of 3.0m passengers and 0.6m vehicles per annum on routes between Southampton (UK mainland) and East and West Cowes (Isle of Wight). The fleet consists of modern purpose built Ro-Ro vehicle ferries and Red Jet Hi-Speed passenger catamarans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) Not to mention Hovertravel, foot PAX between Gosport and Ryde. No, I think Isle of Wight is quite different commercially and operationally. However, I think the principle of free competition is a good one. The market would provide us with a sustainable service at good prices if we opened up Ro-Ro to direct competition. Prices now are too high because of the Steam Packet's need to service their £240 million debt and because they have a monopoly on Ro-Ro services under the user agreement. Edited February 19, 2011 by guzzi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Haven't the events of the last week confirmed that there isn't the volume of freight to sustain two companies. Mezeron couldn't do it with two cheaply chartered vessels, the costs of a ro-ro vessel would be considerably more, how would that be sustainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Not at all. Mezeron showed that even with the disadvantage of no access to the Ro-Ro berths, and ships that were a third of the tonnage of the Ben, they could take a significant share of the market. On a level playing field, they may well have succeeded. If indeed there is only a market sufficient for a single operator, let us not have a stitched up government agreement based on that premise, let the market decide. We will receive a truly sustainable service that way, a service appropriate to the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 They got a significant share of the market but still couldn't make a profit, size of ship doesn't come into it. If by a level playing field you mean they would have to run loss making passenger services as well it just wouldn't work. all you would end up with is two companies running two vessels to the NW England carrying freight and passengers once a day each. There would be no services to Ireland or extra summer services to the UK because either company wouldn't have too. That's why there is a UA , to guarentee those services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 But they could not capture a sufficient market share to break even with the cheapest charter rates for years and no long term committment the figures still did not add up. A bigger boat, even a Ro Ro, if the user agreement was ended, would be in an even worse position economically. It would just bring down both companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 If the market is there, there would be services. The services would be commensurate to demand. There is no point trying to compel an operator to run services that are uneconomic, that's just a recipe for inflated prices. The UA should be torn up and free market economics allowed to operate. We may well end up with a single operator, although I doubt the IoMSP with it's burden of debt would last very long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 The market is there for one operator. If there is no UA all there would be is services to the NW UK and nothing else. How would that be beneficial to the Isle of Man, especially the tourist industy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I'm old enough to remember the proposed hovercraft service from Fleetwod in the 1960's, which did not take off due to wave height operating restrictions, even in summer, and the Stella Marina and Norwest Laird , also in the 1960's from Fleetwood, which lasted only 3 years, passengers only as well as the ManxLine/IOMSPCo competition between 1978 and 1984, that drove both to the brink of bankruptcy and resulted in a shot gun merger and the passing out of Manx shareholding and local control and eventual loss of independence of the Steam Packet. In the early part of 1984, may have been '85, the Steam Packet was on the brink, they had not issued their summer schedules, they had a duff boat, operating out of docks in Liverpool, not the landing stage, and we all faced the prospect of loss of service, damege to the TT and tourism as well as much more infrequent services. The uncertainty was not good. I want a certain service at reasonable times. The latest short lived competition has lost us morning fast craft to Liverpool all summer as well as a cut back on the Irish routes For a while in the early 1980's I had a pass for the Steam Packet. If I paid the passenger tax I could get on any boat as a fot passenger fror free. Often at weekeneds during summer I got up early, saw it was a nice day and just turned up, and had a day on board, off to Ardrossan, Belfast, Dublin, Llandudno, Fleetwood or Liverpool. I was sorting out a drawer of old driving licences and other documents and found it the other week. My father had an annual contract for years, and you could get quarterly and half yearly ones. A sumer season booklet of 10 day return tickets was also available at heavily discounted price and many pensioners on Merseyside travelled back and fro all summer, better still if you ran out you could top it up for free! What we need is better offers and special fares. I have just renewed my Mannan Executive club mebership for the two of us and at £425 for a year I had to think if it was really worth it. The answer was yes, but not because of any discount or the saving on 1st class seats, but because of the club administrator who sorts out my not infrequent changes of plan when travelling, with charm and grace and efficiency. On the other hand I have a similar card for Brittany Feries, costs £125 a year, and on my first booking of 2011 I have saved over £150 on the fare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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