pongo Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 For a while in the early 1980's I had a pass for the Steam Packet. If I paid the passenger tax I could get on any boat as a fot passenger fror free. Often at weekeneds during summer I got up early, saw it was a nice day and just turned up, and had a day on board, off to Ardrossan, Belfast, Dublin, Llandudno, Fleetwood or Liverpool. I was sorting out a drawer of old driving licences and other documents and found it the other week. My father had an annual contract for years, and you could get quarterly and half yearly ones. A sumer season booklet of 10 day return tickets was also available at heavily discounted price and many pensioners on Merseyside travelled back and fro all summer, better still if you ran out you could top it up for free! Oil was cheap in those days. Those days are over for ever. It will get more and more and more expensive to travel to and from the IOM. Especially because of the lack of competition or stop-off services. What we need is better offers and special fares. What we need is freight competition, or at least, the continual possibility of freight competition if freight prices rise much above break even point. A captive freight market should never subsidise passenger and domestic services because there is adequate competition (just about) on the air routes which already serve those domestic markets. Because freight costs massively impact the economy. The linkspan monopoly remains utterly weird IMO. It's like Liverpool deciding that only trucks belonging to one freight company can use the motorway into the city. And anyone else has to use the B roads. All that said - I respect your opinion and wish we still lived in the past. Frankly this place is going to be increasingly expensive because of fuel costs. The best way of easing that might well ultimately be to open the linkspan to ro ro freight vessels which can stop off on the way to somewhere else. The days of us having solely dedicated services are numbered IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 The thing is, apart from the supermarkets, mezeron may well have took a few extre bookings that used to go on the steam packet back to ramsey with them, they can still ship containers in for anybody that wants them, yes it may not be everyday, but that can allways be planned around. And the amount of free advertisment they got from this little stunt will be worth a hell of a lot to them, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Pongo, you are right when you say oil prices will dictate the cost of freight and passengers to the IOM in the future, competition or not. You say freight rates should not subsidise passenger fares, if that was the case fares on the fastcraft would go through the roof, if every crossing had to pay it's way I would hate to think what the fares would be to Ireland. You mention the possibility of passing vessels calling into Douglas as competition. Why would these companies want too? Competition is hard enough on Irish Sea routes, why would companies want to go out of their way and delay their customers by calling in to the Island and picking up a insignificant number of trailers? Apart from the vessels actually fitting into Douglas harbour! Gazza, you are quite right in saying anybody who wants to ship with Mezeron has every right to do so. If it's not in a rush, why not! But your final sentance sums it up, it was nothing more than a little stunt from a small company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 But your final sentance sums it up, it was nothing more than a little stunt from a small company. But there not a small company, there bigger than the SP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 You say freight rates should not subsidise passenger fares, if that was the case fares on the fastcraft would go through the roof There doesn't need to be a fast craft. The future is slower vessels. Slower vessels use much less fuel. The user agreement is out of date on this score. You mention the possibility of passing vessels calling into Douglas as competition. Why would these companies want too? Competition is hard enough on Irish Sea routes, why would companies want to go out of their way and delay their customers by calling in to the Island and picking up a insignificant number of trailers? Most freight isn't in that much of a hurry. A few extra hours makes no difference. Ultimately it will make sense to amalgamate routes and services. There doesn't really even need to be a domestic / passenger service every day. That's a luxury out of a different era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Gazza, Mezeron have now one small 500 ton coaster. If you mean Dohle, how big are Macquarie and the pension funds who actually own the SP? Pongo, I agree with you that Fastcraft are out of date and inefficient and a conventional ship would be alot better,not only in the green sense but in any poor weather. A lot of freight is in a hurry. Just ask Tesco, Shopriite,Co Op and M&S. They are the high worth cargo, where the money is! Bricks and cement and fertiliser can be shipped at any time but it's more than a few hours difference. You say there isn't a need for a passenger service every day, imagine the shit that would hit the fan if the SP tried to pull that one, you would be first in the queue to slag them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 You say there isn't a need for a passenger service every day, imagine the shit that would hit the fan if the SP tried to pull that one, you would be first in the queue to slag them off. No I wouldn't. Provided there are alternatives. What seemed to come out of the debate over recent months - is that the UA is out of date + the linkspan monopoly prevents freight competition + the huge debts which have to be serviced out of profits + the domestic service being subsidised by freight. It seems like the worst of all worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 There are alternatives, they are called airlines, but trying to get your car on as hand baggage is a bastard. How is the UA out of date? it guarantees regular services. We are going round in circles,there is not enough freight for two services as proven by recent events, linkspan or not! Huge debts that have to be serviced out of profits, just like the MEA, Man Utd and every other company, that's the way of the world in these greed is good times. To keep passeger rates down why not subsidise with the freight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 You say there isn't a need for a passenger service every day, imagine the shit that would hit the fan if the SP tried to pull that one, you would be first in the queue to slag them off. No I wouldn't. Provided there are alternatives. What seemed to come out of the debate over recent months - is that the UA is out of date + the linkspan monopoly prevents freight competition + the huge debts which have to be serviced out of profits + the domestic service being subsidised by freight. It seems like the worst of all worlds. I find it quite depressing that despite history showing to the contrary over recent times there is still a belief that competition would bring a better service and cheaper prices. Also there seems to be a belief that such companies would be to serve the IoM rather than make as much money as possible. In my view due to there being insuuficient business to support two companies it would bring a yoyoing of services with cheap prices and frequent services whilst two companies compete. As soon as the other company was forced out and service levels would be cut be right back and prices rocket. There would be a defacto monopoly as after we had been through the cycle a couple of times unless a competitor was sure they could force the operator out they would not bother trying. It has been shown time and again there is not enough business to sustain two but even if there was you could be sure that the intention when the two companies compete would be to force the other out of business or off the rout and have a monopoly anyway. The user agreemenmt may be an imperfect mechanism but with out some mechansim to control service levels and prices we would have in my view a much worse and higher price service than we currently all ready have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Thank god, someone who can see the reality and not some Utopian dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 How is the UA out of date? Well one example would be the pointless requirement to operate fast services. ie fast craft. Which increases costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 To keep passeger rates down why not subsidise with the freight. Why should the weekly shop be more expensive in order to subsidise people putting their cars on the boat ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 That is true, as I've said I agree Fastcraft are an out dated, expensive, inefficient type of vessel. That is a IOM Government requirement not a SP one. I would think the SP would be more than happy just to use conventional ships, but apparently the general public like getting from A to B in the fastest possible time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 To keep passeger rates down why not subsidise with the freight. Why should the weekly shop be more expensive in order to subsidise people putting their cars on the boat ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxBaz Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Oops, sorry, messed up my reply there. I guess it's a question of swings and roundabouts. Keeping passenger rates down low enough to entice holiday makers and locals onto the boats and off the airlines, and keeping the hauliers happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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